Old Skier
Tour Winner
No I think like you they are against it. :lol:
EU Referendum
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
Old Skier
Tour Winner
As some on hear have argued quite forcefully that the EU is not run but an unelected body of commissioners could they clarify how today the commissioners can announce an additional amount of several billion EU to be spent on the refugee crises.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not arguing against money being spent on the crises, it's more to do with how an unelected body can announce an increase in funding which would mean an increase of contributions by member states without a vote by the elected body taking place?
Dont get me wrong, I'm not arguing against money being spent on the crises, it's more to do with how an unelected body can announce an increase in funding which would mean an increase of contributions by member states without a vote by the elected body taking place?
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
As I understand the commissioners are like an executive board. They are appointed by the European council who are basically all the heads of state, and then approved by the European Parliament, who are elected by us. I suppose that was thought to be the best way to run it.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Thanks, just cannot understand how they have the authority to add to a members contributions with out a vote being taken either by the country which is likely to pay the extra or the 751 MPs that sit in the parliament.
Foxholer
Blackballed
By getting approval for the Budget from the EU Parliament - which IS the elected body!
It works in a similar way that Cabinet does wrt Parliament! The differences are that the EU Commissioners are appointed by member states, while Cabinet is appointed by the PM. There have even been instances where (effectively) Cabinet members have not been 'elected' in the first place!
The concept of that the House of Commons is really any more democratic is a serious myth imo! The fact that there are Parties/Whips means that, except for Manifesto items, it's Cabinet that decides legislation. And if you want a demonstration of how little Parliament, as a whole really affects things, then just consider how often The Budget proposals (or any other piece of Cabinet generated legislation) have been rejected - though there have been occasional revolts that have caused changes to be made!
And as far as I can see, that funding decision was made by the EU Council - which is the body of Member Heads of State, so all elected!
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MegaSteve
Tour Winner
As good a reason as any to stick with my out vote...
A whole bunch of unelected suckarses deciding where my hard earnt gets spent...
No doubt all on mega salaries...
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
An element of that is true. And also an element is exaggeration. And where you sit on the leave/stay will probably depend on which part you most believe.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
There will be, the European Parliament and member states will have to sign off on it.
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
The part that I question the most is always...
How much bureaucracy do we actually need???
And, from where I am sitting, the EU just loves piling more and more levels into 'the pie'...
Great if you are getting to eat from it but not so good if you are paying for it...
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
And I would agree with a lot of that. I just feel that it is a price worth paying for the benefits I think I brings. Just.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I'm sure we all know how the EU is governed; how decisions are made, and where our elected representatives fit in - but just in case here's a summary
The European Council
Acts as the strategic guide for EU policy. It is composed of
the Heads of State or Government of the EU’s member states and the President of
the European Commission; it meets several times a year in what are often termed
“EU summits.†The European Council is headed by a President, appointed by the
member states to organize the Council’s work and facilitate consensus.
The European Commission
Is essentially the EU’s executive and upholds the
common interest of the EU as a whole. It implements and manages EU decisions
and common policies, ensures that the provisions of the EU’s treaties are carried
out properly, and has the sole right of legislative initiative in most policy areas. It
is composed of 28 Commissioners, one from each country, who are appointed by
agreement among the member states to five-year terms and approved by the
European Parliament. One Commissioner serves as Commission President; the
others hold distinct portfolios (e.g., agriculture, energy, trade). On many issues,
the Commission handles negotiations with outside countries. The Commission is
also the EU’s primary administrative entity.
The Council of the European Union (also called the Council of Ministers)
Represents the 28 national governments. The Council enacts legislation, usually
based on proposals put forward by the Commission, and agreed to (in most cases)
by the European Parliament. Different ministers from each country participate in
Council meetings depending on the subject under consideration (e.g., foreign
ministers would meet to discuss the Middle East, agriculture ministers to discuss
farm subsidies). Most decisions are subject to a complex majority voting system,
but some areas—such as foreign and defense policy, taxation, or accepting new
members—require unanimity. The Presidency of the Council rotates among the
member states, changing every six months; the country holding the Presidency
helps set agenda priorities and organizes most of the work of the Council.
The European Parliament
Represents the citizens of the EU. It consists of 751
members who are directly elected for five-year terms (the most recent elections
were in May 2014). Each EU country has a number of seats roughly proportional
to the size of its population. Although the Parliament cannot initiate legislation, it
shares legislative power with the Council of Ministers in many policy areas,
giving it the right to accept, amend, or reject the majority of proposed EU
legislation in a process known as the “ordinary legislative procedure†or “codecision.â€
The Parliament also decides on the allocation of the EU’s budget
jointly with the Council. Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) caucus
according to political affiliation, rather than nationality; there are eight political
groups and a number of non-attached MEPs.
The European Council
Acts as the strategic guide for EU policy. It is composed of
the Heads of State or Government of the EU’s member states and the President of
the European Commission; it meets several times a year in what are often termed
“EU summits.†The European Council is headed by a President, appointed by the
member states to organize the Council’s work and facilitate consensus.
The European Commission
Is essentially the EU’s executive and upholds the
common interest of the EU as a whole. It implements and manages EU decisions
and common policies, ensures that the provisions of the EU’s treaties are carried
out properly, and has the sole right of legislative initiative in most policy areas. It
is composed of 28 Commissioners, one from each country, who are appointed by
agreement among the member states to five-year terms and approved by the
European Parliament. One Commissioner serves as Commission President; the
others hold distinct portfolios (e.g., agriculture, energy, trade). On many issues,
the Commission handles negotiations with outside countries. The Commission is
also the EU’s primary administrative entity.
The Council of the European Union (also called the Council of Ministers)
Represents the 28 national governments. The Council enacts legislation, usually
based on proposals put forward by the Commission, and agreed to (in most cases)
by the European Parliament. Different ministers from each country participate in
Council meetings depending on the subject under consideration (e.g., foreign
ministers would meet to discuss the Middle East, agriculture ministers to discuss
farm subsidies). Most decisions are subject to a complex majority voting system,
but some areas—such as foreign and defense policy, taxation, or accepting new
members—require unanimity. The Presidency of the Council rotates among the
member states, changing every six months; the country holding the Presidency
helps set agenda priorities and organizes most of the work of the Council.
The European Parliament
Represents the citizens of the EU. It consists of 751
members who are directly elected for five-year terms (the most recent elections
were in May 2014). Each EU country has a number of seats roughly proportional
to the size of its population. Although the Parliament cannot initiate legislation, it
shares legislative power with the Council of Ministers in many policy areas,
giving it the right to accept, amend, or reject the majority of proposed EU
legislation in a process known as the “ordinary legislative procedure†or “codecision.â€
The Parliament also decides on the allocation of the EU’s budget
jointly with the Council. Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) caucus
according to political affiliation, rather than nationality; there are eight political
groups and a number of non-attached MEPs.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Now this is the part that the elected folk should be challenging! Though plenty of them are in on the same gravy train.
And while I'm pretty certain that there IS too much (unnecessary) bureaucracy, I'm rather impressed at the relatively low head-count, considering that it covers 27 countries and a huge budget! There seems to be far greater numbers in many parts of the UK Civil Service - the UK equivalent. The NHS is actually something like the 5th largest employer in the world, and there's plenty of bureaucracy in that organisation!
Do you actually know what the head-count is? Or have you merely been a (possibly willing) victim of the propaganda from the likes of DM and UKIP!
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
As long as folk vote for what they think/believe is right/good for the UK rather than whether they like [or not] the look of the folk on the platforms.. I'd be happy with the result either way...
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Only google as a last resort so no... And, have only been a 'victim' to too many wishing to take a dip into my pockets...
Seeing the head of the fisheries commission [or whatever other grand title he may have] on Countryfile a few weeks back told me all I need to know about the EU and bureaucracy...
Old Skier
Tour Winner
But the point is that (according to the news item), the new money has already been promised by the commission but no vote has yet been taken in the EU Parliament.
Foxholer
Blackballed
That's because this funding was approved by the EU Council (I believe), which is the body of Heads of States of member countries - the same group that agreed UK's 'deal'! So all elected!
There is also an ongoing budget (2014-2020) that supposedly covers 'normal' issues! And that IS agreed by the EU Parliament - though almost certainly in an equivalent way to that of the UK Budget!
When our govt sends money for disaster relief or other such things it doesn't ask parliament for permission, it just does it. Whether or not you agree with what they are doing they are acting no differently than our own govt does in similar situations.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
We have an overseas aid budget for things like disaster relief.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Or at least fed your pre-conceived prejudices - which you re perfectly entitled to have btw!
But while you (and I) suspect there is too much bureaucracy, you cannot prove it, therefore simply saying 'there IS....' is invalid!
To quote/paraphrase LpPhil, show me the facts!
Foxholer
Blackballed
Indeed! And £115M was allocated by the PM (no reference to Parliamentary approval) in September. And a further £30m in new funding in January - again no Parliamentary approval!
There was, however, a statement made by the Minister on Feb 8th
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