EU Referendum

[Foxholer]

Nice one - the first one appears to be a European commission documents. I unfortunately can only go on news reports stating that the budget has not been signed off by auditors for the last 16 years, I have no other facts to go on.

That 'myth' appears to be debunked in one of the points in the first link!

Basically...Don't simply believe everything you read in the papers! They have generally selected what suits their viewpoint!

I also don't think I have mentioned legislation this week and not in this thread but I'm willing to be corrected.

So explain how 'unelected bureaucrats' can impose anything - in any different way to that done by 'unelected officials' in UK?

 

[MarkE]

We can all post links either for or against an exit. They prove nothing. Michael Gove summed it up in his recent Telegraph section and it's basically what most of the Leave supporters believe.
He said ' I believe our country would be freer, fairer and better off outside the EU. Our democracy stood the test of time. We showed the world what a free people could achieve if they were allowed to govern themselves.
That's the argument in a nutshell for me.

 

[Old Skier]

That 'myth' appears to be debunked in one of the points in the first link!

Basically...Don't simply believe everything you read in the papers! They have generally selected what suits their viewpoint!

It appears you do as the link was published by the very people have been accused of the budget overspend.

I humbly suggest that the commission have selected what suits their viewpoint.

We will each believe what we want to believe, simple really.

 

[Foxholer]

It appears you do as the link was published by the very people have been accused of the budget overspend.

I humbly suggest that the commission have selected what suits their viewpoint.
....

Nope! I adopt a similar evidence-based cynicism to both groups!

We will each believe what we want to believe, simple really.

H'mm! If someone can provide me with appropriate evidence, I'm quite happy to change my vie! You don't appear to be, which is your right of course!

You still haven't answered the question I asked that prompted this (in post 813)! Does that mean you cannot?

 

[Old Skier]

You still haven't answered the question I asked that prompted this (in post 813)! Does that mean you cannot?

My personal view is that the commissioners come from the jobs for the boys/mates school of you do a favour for me and once you have finished in front line Polotics well give you a nice cosy job within the EU, it's turned the Kinnock family into a very wealthy enterprise.

As to changing your view I think you have already (like me) decided which way your voting.

 

[Foxholer]

You still haven't answered the question I asked that prompted this (in post 813)! Does that mean you cannot?

My personal view is that the commissioners come from the jobs for the boys/mates school of you do a favour for me and once you have finished in front line Polotics well give you a nice cosy job within the EU, it's turned the Kinnock family into a very wealthy enterprise.

As to changing your view I think you have already (like me) decided which way your voting.

So you quote my repeated query about answering the question, but you still don't answer it!

Have you considered becoming a politician?

Or are you simply afraid/unwilling to admit you may be wrong!

 

[Old Skier]

I consider it answered, if it's not acceptable to you or anyone else it's not my problem.

Best move on.

 

[Foxholer]

I consider it answered, if it's not acceptable to you or anyone else it's not my problem.

Best move on.

Nope! Merely ignored/avoided!

But indeed, move on - perhaps to the next myth!

 

[Hacker Khan]

I'm not yet convinced that there is a compelling economic argument for staying in the EU so would like to know more about it before deciding which way to vote. You are obviously happy to accept what these companies are saying as it supports your belief that we should stay in the EU. I want to see the facts from both sides of the argument to be able to make an informed decision.

And it is you that has focussed on Vodafone rather than any of the other companies I mentioned. Do you really think a Spanish or Dutch owned company would do anything other than come out on the side of the UK staying in the EU?

All I am saying is that I would like a bit more of an economic argument/opinion why is it best if we come out of the EU. Rather than some 'well they would say that as they are all foreign anyway'.

I will say again the ownership of these large companies is nowhere near as simple as you make out and it is increasingly difficult to say any large company is 'British, French' etc etc as they are all mostly global players and the major shareholders are global. I would not be surprised if most of these companies are more 'owned' by investors from the the middle and far east nowadays. More importantly for the UK's economy is where they chose to invest and how many people they employ in certain countries. The actual nuances of who ultimately owns these big company is mostly irrelevant in my opinion.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Can someone explain how that prior to 75 we were a major importer and exporter, since joining an ever beuracratic and costly organisation we have lost most of our export business but we are still a major importer.

Big business moves to wherever the tax advantages, manpower costs and government subsides are greatest, we even see businesses moving around the UK because of this.

The EU will never impose a levy on the UK just because they leave, they couldn't afford the loss of trade unless we become a major exporter with nett gains against the EU.

Im also not sure what this leap into the unknown is if we leave - we have been there before. The only real unknown is remaining in as we have no idea what an unelected commission in the EU will impose on us next.

One word - Globalisation.

Been taking place for hundreds of years but has speeded up enormously over the last 50 years.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I always find it amusing when the right wingers talk about decisions taken by unelected European officials whilst cheerfully accepting the UK's House of Lords.

 

[MegaSteve]

I always find it amusing when the right wingers talk about decisions taken by unelected European officials whilst cheerfully accepting the UK's House of Lords.

I strongly suspect if you conducted an exit poll at my local conclub the majority would be more than happy to see HoL dispensed with...

Think there's a bit of a cross party 'agreement' on that point...

 

[Scoobiesnax]

I always find it amusing when the right wingers talk about decisions taken by unelected European officials whilst cheerfully accepting the UK's House of Lords.

Was it not a while ago that the left wingers were talking the House of Lords up for their intervention with the tax credit reforms........ only when it suits; eh!

 

[Old Skier]

I always find it amusing when the right wingers talk about decisions taken by unelected European officials whilst cheerfully accepting the UK's House of Lords.

It seems (according to one poster at least) that the HOL is acceptable as most are put in place by elected members of the HOC.

 

[MarkE]

I'd be more than happy to the HOL done away with. Freeloaders.

I see the latest immigration figures have been released, another third of a million net. Cameron has again failed miserably to lower the figure to the tens of thousands as promised. Obviously because there is absolutely nothing he can do about it. Still, he can carry on blaming an ageing population for the pressure on the infrastructure, health, housing, education rather than the 3 million or so extra bodies over the last decade.:thup:

 

[SocketRocket]

I always find it amusing when the right wingers talk about decisions taken by unelected European officials whilst cheerfully accepting the UK's House of Lords.

Really! Exactly who are these supporters?

 

[SocketRocket]

One word - Globalisation.

Been taking place for hundreds of years but has speeded up enormously over the last 50 years.

Please explain how that answered his question?

 

[Old Skier]

But indeed, move on - perhaps to the next myth!

Great knock one out as golfs finished and I need some further entertainment.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Please explain how that answered his question?

My understanding of one key aspect of globalisation is that new and lower cost exporters can now compete with the UK and access our traditional markets. Further many manufacturers are now part of global conglomerates and so do not need to manufacture goods in the UK to address these markets.

Maybe that's just not the case and globalisation hasn't really affected the UK. And maybe I just find it interesting the coincidence that the fall of in our manufacturing and exports you refer to has occurred at the same time as the huge expansion in globalisation that has occurred over the period since we voted to remain in the EEC.

One thing for sure - the global trading environment today is very different from that of 1975 so harking back to how it was then is I think not a lot of help - not saying that you are btw - but I've heard it said. Indeed I've heard Leavers citing examples of ho wthe UK traded globally back to Elizabethan - never mind Victorian and pre-EEC - times

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Was it not a while ago that the left wingers were talking the House of Lords up for their intervention with the tax credit reforms........ only when it suits; eh!

I think they were in shock as a blue moon had just come over the horizon.