EU Referendum

[Deleted member 18588]

You don't actually have a coherent argument. You just dismiss anyone who doesn't share your extreme opinions as voicing opinions rather than facts. You wouldn't know a fact if it ran up behind you and kicked up up the arse.

OK, Mr Keen on Facts, tell me the facts you have that the NHS is not being privatised and why Hunt's argument about weekend deaths is correct. I will await your reasoned argument, but won't hold my breath, just in case you are full of hot air. Prove to me I am wrong with facts and evidence.

As for vested interest, I do not work in the NHS nor have any junior doctor relatives or even friends. I am a medical practitioner, though, who saw the start of this process and a patient in the NHS, and care that it continues to provide a good service at reasonable value.

Please also declare your vested interests and conflicts and the basis for your expertise in this area. I am sure you wouldn't want to be seen as a bare faced hypocrite.

I am not going to grace your outburst with a reply other than to say that at no time have I expressed any views which could be called extreme, unless, of course, it is considered extreme to disagree with you.

My original statement stands . You accused a politician of lying based upon your view of events differing from his. So not factually based.

Now my pompous little friend I shall bid you good-day (and place you on ignore as it may be best for both of us).

 

[Old Skier]

Economic migrants having a lefty rant again. How predictable.

 

[SocketRocket]

View attachment 18501

 

[MegaSteve]

It may well be an idea for Labour to sit on the side lines, at present, whilst the Tories implode...

 

[Old Skier]

There are quite a few Labour members, including the present leader who will be voting out.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I had to laugh with the guy who said............ 'When people talk about UKIP voters, why do I always think of Alan Partridge'.

 

[SocketRocket]

You really don't get it, do you?

There is a huge body of proof that the NHS is being prepared for privatisation. It is not even a stealth strategy, it is open and clear. The TTIP, changes to primary legislation to allow any willing provider and pretty much all of the changes to the structure of Trust, not to mention some actual privatisations and the spoken word of numerous Tory (and some Labour) politicians. You must live in a bubble if you think otherwise. Hunt has even written a book on it, and changes to junior doctors contracts, as a prelude to changes to consultant contracts are a part of that. The appointment of people from US healthcare insurers and the creations of a secretive Special Projects Group, as well as numerous experiments in spinning out Trusts and services provide even more evidence.

It is also belong question that the weekend effect is not due to staffing, nor can be fixed by staffing changes, but are due to case-mix. Even some of Hunt's employees, and authors of the BMJ paper agree. And there is proof that Hunt and the DH manipulated the paper while it was being written to add spin. Even the editor of the journal in which it was published has publicly criticised it.

The BMA is quite right to defend cuts to doctors pay. There was never any prospect of pay rises, but the effect of moving staff to weekends away from weekdays is damaging to them and to patient care. The Govt spin on increasing staffing and providing a 7 day NHS is a lie. Surely even you can see that?

Now, you may be basing your comments on your views, but mine are based on observation and evidence.

Is TTIP not something being negotiated by the EU and not the UK?

The NHS uses private sector services in many cases because it's helpful. For example : London's Cromwell Hospital, run by Bupa, does a good trade in NHS patients at its gamma knife radiosurgery centre, the NHS only has a handful of such units as it hasn't been considered economically viable to open more. So when demand requires the NHS pays for them to be seen privately. Every year thousands of NHS patients are treated by the private sector for routine treatments, such as knee and hip operations. This is not because NHS hospitals cannot treat the patients, but because both the last Labour government, the coalition and current Government have encouraged private firms to get involved as a way to reduce waiting times and to offer patients choice.

These things are not out and out privatisation but sensible ways of using all resources available to help patients. I cannot understand the view that NHS services cannot be contracted, what matters most is that the treatment is free of charge at the point of delivery. Anyone would think people like Hunt are the Devils children listening to you.

Regarding the Junior Doctors dispute. There is no doubt that the main issues by the BMA are political and from the Doctors it's about losing out on overtime payments combined with a backwards facing view of weekend working in a service that cries out for it.

 

[MegaSteve]

There are quite a few Labour members, including the present leader who will be voting out.

Hopefully....

But there's no need for them to get involved with the debate...

 

[SocketRocket]

I had to laugh with the guy who said............ 'When people talk about UKIP voters, why do I always think of Alan Partridge'.

Thats a fair comment as when I talk about SNP voters I always think of 'Jimmy Krankie' :rofl:

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I shall vote against anything that Gove, IDS and Grayling vote in favour of.

 

[MegaSteve]

I shall vote against anything that Gove, IDS and Grayling vote in favour of.

But quite happy to vote with the leader of the pack... Cameron ...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

But quite happy to vote with the leader of the pack... Cameron ...

If Cameron is leader of the Tory splinter group that wishes to stay in the EU...... of course:lol:

 

[Old Skier]

It would suprise me if every member of the SNP voted in but I doubt if the boss will allow for any declaration of support for the out side.

 

[MegaSteve]

It would suprise me if every member of the SNP voted in but I doubt if the boss will allow for any declaration of support for the out side.

Their second in command is "deeply offended" that Cameron has the temerity to have a referendum whilst the Scots are also voting in their parliamentary elections...

So, perhaps, they'll be too busy to get involved...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Amusing little piece.
Amazing how removing the word Europe transforms the article.


http://wingsoverscotland.com/we-agree-with-michael-gove/

 

[Hobbit]

Amusing little piece.
Amazing how removing the word Europe transforms the article.


http://wingsoverscotland.com/we-agree-with-michael-gove/

if you are suggesting independence, again, I believe the scots already made their wishes known last year.

that said, isn't it perverse that so many Scots want independence from the rest of the UK but want to tie themselves to a federal Europe that is looking for central control.... You couldn't make it up could you!!!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

if you are suggesting independence, again, I believe the scots already made their wishes known last year.

that said, isn't it perverse that so many Scots want independence from the rest of the UK but want to tie themselves to a federal Europe that is looking for central control.... You couldn't make it up could you!!!

No, just saying that it is amusing what Gove says with the E word missing.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

if you are suggesting independence, again, I believe the scots already made their wishes known last year.

that said, isn't it perverse that so many Scots want independence from the rest of the UK but want to tie themselves to a federal Europe that is looking for central control.... You couldn't make it up could you!!!

Couldn't sum it up any better

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Couldn't sum it up any better

Well, Hobbit could have got the dates correct for starters.....another 'oversight'' by LP.
Unless you mean that last years Scottish election was the wish of the Scots, but that would be stating the bleeding obvious.:lol:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well, Hobbit could have got the dates correct for starters.....another 'oversight'' by LP.
Unless you mean that last years Scottish election was the wish of the Scots, but that would be stating the bleeding obvious.:lol:

What date ? No dates in the post I quoted