EU Referendum

[Doon frae Troon]

Nicola and May meeting at Bute House today.

I wonder if the PM has read this piece...http://wingsoverscotland.com/our-friends-in-europa/

Important info according to Andrew Marr, especially for newspaper readers.

 

[delc]

But many dont want to move on, they want to make stupid claims that suggest people with different opinions are uneducated, racist, xenophobic,old dodgers who should not be allowed to vote and so on, that nothing will work out for the better and life as we know it is at a tragic end. Most of the moaning from Remainers is just sour grapes, doom and gloom.

Hislop is and always was an opportunist cynic and thats what he has been handsomely rewarded for, why should he be any different now. His analogy with the Government Opposition is a poor one IMO, The opposition's job isn't to just say everything the Government do is wrong but to offer alternative strategies if they believe the Government is wrong and support them if they think they are right.

To be fair, some of the folk who voted to leave fitted that description exactly! I know some of them personally!

 

[Hacker Khan]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...wants-from-brexit-negotiations-20160715110899

 

[delc]

Nicola and May meeting at Bute House today.

I wonder if the PM has read this piece...http://wingsoverscotland.com/our-friends-in-europa/

Important info according to Andrew Marr, especially for newspaper readers.

Not a bad idea, because we would get rid of the problems of Scotland and Northern Ireland in one go. Then the Little Englanders would be able to revel in their self inflicted poverty and isolation (sorry Sovereignty) for ever more!

 

[Region3]

Not a bad idea, because we would get rid of the problems of Scotland and Northern Ireland in one go. Then the Little Englanders would be able to revel in their self inflicted poverty and isolation (sorry Sovereignty) for ever more!

Yet another thinly veiled insinuation that anyone who voted leave is stupid. It's really starting to pee me off and I didn't even vote leave!

 

[Hobbit]

Not a bad idea, because we would get rid of the problems of Scotland and Northern Ireland in one go. Then the Little Englanders would be able to revel in their self inflicted poverty and isolation (sorry Sovereignty) for ever more!

Yet another thinly veiled insinuation that anyone who voted leave is stupid. It's really starting to pee me off and I didn't even vote leave!

Ditto from another Remainer. To be honest, it would appear that there are a fair share of idiots on both sides.

 

[SocketRocket]

Nicola and May meeting at Bute House today.

I wonder if the PM has read this piece...http://wingsoverscotland.com/our-friends-in-europa/

Important info according to Andrew Marr, especially for newspaper readers.

Keep grasping Doom.

 

[delc]

Yet another thinly veiled insinuation that anyone who voted leave is stupid. It's really starting to pee me off and I didn't even vote leave!

I think the people who voted to leave believed too much of the rubbish printed about the EU in the right wing gutter press, and didn't think through the consequences of leaving. In particular:
1) Will we still be able to trade freely with EU countries?
2) Will we still be able to travel freely in Europe?
3) What happens to UK citizens who live and work in EU countries and vice versa.
4) Would we still be able to marry citizens of EU countries if we so wished?
5) We no longer have the military and economic clout that we once had, so could we defend ourselves as a small independent nation if attacked?

 

[SocketRocket]

I think the people who voted to leave believed too much of the rubbish printed about the EU in the right wing gutter press, and didn't think through the consequences of leaving. In particular:
1) Will we still be able to trade freely with EU countries?
2) Will we still be able to travel freely in Europe?
3) What happens to UK citizens who live and work in EU countries and vice versa.
4) Would we still be able to marry citizens of EU countries if we so wished?
5) We no longer have the military and economic clout that we once had, so could we defend ourselves as a small independent nation if attacked?

1 to 4 absolutely.

5 - Attacked by who? We will renew our nuclear deterrent, we are getting the two largest aircraft carriers in the world soon to be equipped with very high spec VTOL stealth fighters, we still are a formidable fighting force in Europe and are a major partner in Nato. How do you think being in the EU makes any difference to our National security?

 

[Hobbit]

I think the people who voted to leave believed too much of the rubbish printed about the EU in the right wing gutter press, and didn't think through the consequences of leaving. In particular:
1) Will we still be able to trade freely with EU countries?
2) Will we still be able to travel freely in Europe?
3) What happens to UK citizens who live and work in EU countries and vice versa.
4) Would we still be able to marry citizens of EU countries if we so wished?
5) We no longer have the military and economic clout that we once had, so could we defend ourselves as a small independent nation if attacked?

Maybe you've never heard of NATO? Its a fairly recent military alliance. Maybe we should join...

 

[ColchesterFC]

I think the people who voted to leave believed too much of the rubbish printed about the EU in the right wing gutter press, and didn't think through the consequences of leaving. In particular:
1) Will we still be able to trade freely with EU countries? Yes, almost certainly, but at what cost is so far unknown until negotiations happen.
2) Will we still be able to travel freely in Europe? Again, yes almost certainly. Why wouldn't we? Do you think that places such as France, Italy, Spain and Greece would want to impose restrictions on UK citizens wanting to go on holiday there?
3) What happens to UK citizens who live and work in EU countries and vice versa. Personally I think an agreement will be reached on that as one of the starting points for negotiation.
4) Would we still be able to marry citizens of EU countries if we so wished? Yes, why wouldn't we? We can marry Australians, Chinese, Japanese etc if we wish so why would leaving the EU mean we can't marry EU citizens?
5) We no longer have the military and economic clout that we once had, so could we defend ourselves as a small independent nation if attacked? We've left the EU we're still part of NATO so again yes.

Answered your questions above. Personally I think questions four and five are ridiculous to even be asking.

 

[delc]

Re: EU Referenduma

Answered your questions above. Personally I think questions four and five are ridiculous to even be asking.

Actually it is quite difficult now to marry somebody from outside the EU and certain Commonwealth countries. At least to get residence rights for your new partner. I know this because several of my friends have tried it. I believe this is to prevent foreign nationals from gaining residence rights through 'sham marriages'.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I think the people who voted to leave believed too much of the rubbish printed about the EU in the right wing gutter press, and didn't think through the consequences of leaving. In particular:
1) Will we still be able to trade freely with EU countries?
2) Will we still be able to travel freely in Europe?
3) What happens to UK citizens who live and work in EU countries and vice versa.
4) Would we still be able to marry citizens of EU countries if we so wished?
5) We no longer have the military and economic clout that we once had, so could we defend ourselves as a small independent nation if attacked?

Unlike all the thoroughly well-informed remainers, like my brother-in-law, who voted to stay because we'd be stupid to give up the £4.4 billion we get in grants from the EU. It had completely escaped him that after the rebate we hand over £12.9 billion to get those grants back. The cretin had no idea whatsoever that we are net contributors.

But it's only the leavers that were ill-informed, eh………

 

[delc]

Unlike all the thoroughly well-informed remainers, like my brother-in-law, who voted to stay because we'd be stupid to give up the £4.4 billion we get in grants from the EU. It had completely escaped him that after the rebate we hand over £12.9 billion to get those grants back. The cretin had no idea whatsoever that we are net contributors.

But it's only the leavers that were ill-informed, eh………

We will probably still have to pay in either directly, or in tariffs, to continue to trade with the EU, but with no say in how the rules are made, post Brexit!

 

[harpo_72]

Unlike all the thoroughly well-informed remainers, like my brother-in-law, who voted to stay because we'd be stupid to give up the £4.4 billion we get in grants from the EU. It had completely escaped him that after the rebate we hand over £12.9 billion to get those grants back. The cretin had no idea whatsoever that we are net contributors.

But it's only the leavers that were ill-informed, eh………

I am sure you BIL appreciates you calling him a cretin. However the distribution of AID was done on application and we need to see whether that money is distributed or is used for other non politically worthy causes.
I would also point out that this was a membership to a club who opened markets up and offered othe positive benefits it was not just a charge etc...

 

[Blue in Munich]

We will probably still have to pay in either directly, or in tariffs, to continue to trade with the EU, but with no say in how the rules are made, post Brexit!

I am sure you BIL appreciates you calling him a cretin. However the distribution of AID was done on application and we need to see whether that money is distributed or is used for other non politically worthy causes.
I would also point out that this was a membership to a club who opened markets up and offered othe positive benefits it was not just a charge etc...

And both of you missing, or choosing to miss, the point; it wasn't about what the money did or didn't do for us, it was the fact that he thought, and was keen to point out to anyone who would listen, that the £4.4 billion was pure profit, given by the largesse of the EU without any contribution on our part. No understanding whatsoever of the concept of being a net contributor. And on that basis alone he based his decision to remain.

As for my description of my brother in law, he may not appreciate it but unfortunately it fits him perfectly. At least I have known him personally for some time in order to form the opinion, something that I doubt you could say about everyone who voted leave, yet you have said much worse about them throughout this thread.

 

[SocketRocket]

We will probably still have to pay in either directly, or in tariffs, to continue to trade with the EU, but with no say in how the rules are made, post Brexit!

If tariffs were applied to our exports then reciprocal tariffs would be applied to EU imports, that would be neither in the interests of the EU or the UK so I imagine every other option would be explored. Many other countries trade with the EU without contributing or accepting free movement of people. None of us know what the negotiations will achieve at this time so my optimism and your pessimism are only reflecting our wishes for the outcome.

 

[FairwayDodger]

If tariffs were applied to our exports then reciprocal tariffs would be applied to EU imports, that would be neither in the interests of the EU or the UK so I imagine every other option would be explored. Many other countries trade with the EU without contributing or accepting free movement of people. None of us know what the negotiations will achieve at this time so my optimism and your pessimism are only reflecting our wishes for the outcome.

SR, I have no idea what sort of deal will be worked out but one thing that troubles me about your regular claim, that it won't make sense for the Eu to apply tariffs since we'll just do likewise, is this. If it doesn't make sense why do any countries ever apply tariffs?

I get what you are saying and there is a modicum of common sense to it but I'm not sure common sense will apply. It is wishful thinking, I fear.

 

[harpo_72]

SR, I have no idea what sort of deal will be worked out but one thing that troubles me about your regular claim, that it won't make sense for the Eu to apply tariffs since we'll just do likewise, is this. If it doesn't make sense why do any countries ever apply tariffs?

I get what you are saying and there is a modicum of common sense to it but I'm not sure common sense will apply. It is wishful thinking, I fear.

Don't the Japanese apply quotas as well?

 

[SocketRocket]

SR, I have no idea what sort of deal will be worked out but one thing that troubles me about your regular claim, that it won't make sense for the Eu to apply tariffs since we'll just do likewise, is this. If it doesn't make sense why do any countries ever apply tariffs?

I get what you are saying and there is a modicum of common sense to it but I'm not sure common sense will apply. It is wishful thinking, I fear.

Countries tend to apply tariffs as a method of protectionism, they want to encourage their populations to purchase Nationally produced products thus creating employment and reducing balance of trade deficits. They also do it as a method to stop other countries dumping their products into their market at very low prices which can destroy the local industries, look at the current situation with Chinese steel as an example and one where we are powerless to use that option.

Regarding the UK and EU, as you will know we trade with them at a very substantial trade deficit and if trade tariffs were to be applied it would have a considerable effect on the car, machine tool and agriculture/dairy industries in the EU which would probably lead to a fair amount of unemployment in those industries. For example Germany alone exports around a million cars to the UK per annum. We cannot make comparisons with countries like Norway who are small countries with much less consumer purchasing power.