FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Probably the cabinet job for which he is most unsuited. Once again internal Tory party machinations placed above the national interest.
EU Referendum
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
Probably the cabinet job for which he is most unsuited. Once again internal Tory party machinations placed above the national interest.
drdel
Tour Rookie
Anyone who has worked with BJ has generally respected him. He's no fool professionally and a bright cookie. His mannerisms are a useful facet which makes people under estimate him: to his advantage.
Pretty good Cabinet IMO.
Pretty good Cabinet IMO.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
You are right about people seeing things differently. I just cant believe May will work the way you are suggesting and is setting up Brexit to fail, I know many want that to happen and there seems to be quite a number on this site that support that view. I am beginning to think the mould that our forefathers were cast from has been well and truly smashed.
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
She isn't she is putting the leavers feet to the fire to deliver ... It's in everyone's best interest.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Do you honestly believe She is placing her new role at risk by putting people into these top positions who are not capable of performing! Their performance will be a direct reflection of her ability as PM, It's not a silly playground game.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
That's not the point I was making. If you read it again, you'll see that I'm suggesting that she's putting people in place who will be easy to get rid of should she fail. A little bit of sacrificial protection if you will.
Oh, and I'd be more inclined to respect your position if you ceased with the continual comments regarding the "remainers" being somehow treasonous to the efforts of our forefathers and and the concept of "Great Britain". My "Forefathers" fought just as valiantly for this Country. My family contains Olympic and Commonwealth athletes. My Great Uncle was a record holder for Germany at the World Cup. I have invested just as much, if not more into this Country as anyone on here. We just have different ideas about what makes the Union great. Different, not worse!!!!!
I hope it has been well and truly smashed! Whilst some of them did great things, some of them are responsible for wars, imperialism, slavery, need I go on. We need to forge our own path, on the back of what we've learned from our forefathers, and that includes avoiding their screw ups.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Well said. Unfortunately too many seem to yearn for that bygone era.
V
vkurup
Guest
From the FT today --
Theresa May's bold cabinet gambit on band of Brexiters
Theresa May's appointment of Boris Johnson, David Davis and Liam Fox to take Britain out of the EU is a bold move to let pro-Brexit ministers prove that there is a better future outside - and to make it clear where the blame lies if it goes wrong.
Mr Johnson's appointment is the most eye-catching, putting foreign policy in the hands of a man rarely described as diplomatic: he recently called Barack Obama, Britain's most powerful ally, "part Kenyan" with "an ancestral dislike" of the UK. His appointment will cause bewilderment in chancelleries around the world, but there is some logic to the choice, beyond Mrs May's obvious attempt to reunite her party by giving prominent jobs to pro-Brexit campaigners. Mr Johnson, like the veteran rightwingers Mr Davis and Mr Fox, are "liberal Leavers": although they wanted Britain to leave the EU on grounds of sovereignty, they are not inclined to pull up the drawbridge on the world. Mr Johnson has declared himself to be pro-immigration and as mayor he celebrated the diversity of the capital; in his time in City Hall he was an energetic and effective cheerleader for Britain on numerous trips to China, India and elsewhere. The former London mayor, in any event, is not the most important appointment in the May Brexit team. The Foreign Office has been in secular decline in Whitehall for years, as Number 10 and the Cabinet Office assume more power over foreign policy. The Foreign Office's influence will now be further diluted by the creation of the new Brexit department - led by Mr Davis, a Europe minister in the 1990s - to oversee negotiations to leave the EU. Mr Johnson's remit will, therefore, be to project Britain as an internationalist and open country to a sceptical world; his canvas will be the world beyond Europe, with a particular focus on China, India and the US, where he was born.
Mr Davis, a 67-year-old civil liberties champion, who contested the Tory leadership against David Cameron in 2005, is perhaps the more significant appointment. He will now have to brush down his EU negotiating skills - last deployed as Europe minister in the mid-1990s in the period between the Maastricht and Amsterdam treaties - as the secretary of state for Exiting the European Union. Mr Davis gave his thoughts on this task earlier this week, arguing that Britain should take its time before triggering the Article 50 divorce clause, suggesting that should not happen until the end of this year or in early 2017. "Constitutional propriety requires us to consult with the Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish governments first," he wrote on the Conservative Home website. "Common sense implies that we should consult with stakeholders like the City, CBI, TUC, small business bodies, the NFU, universities and research foundations and the like." Mr Davis says that none of those bodies should have "any sort of veto" but the consultation will undoubtedly produce a clear result: all of those bodies will want the maximum possible access to the single market. The new minister declared: "The ideal outcome, (and in my view the most likely, after a lot of wrangling) is continued tariff-free access. Once the European nations realise that we are not going to budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interest. "There may be some complexities about rules of origin and narrowly-based regulatory compliance for exports into the EU, but that is all manageable." If things turn out to be more complicated, then Mrs May will be relieved that a pro-Brexit minister is in place to explain the trade offs between single market access - and by implication jobs and growth - and immigration control.
The final member of the Brexit trio is Liam Fox, another 2005 Tory leadership contender and former defence secretary, who is charged with making good on the Leavers' claim that the UK will be able to strike a series of new trade deals once it leaves the EU. Since Britain has not negotiated any trade deals on its own behalf since it joined the EU in 1973, Mr Fox's first task is to build up a trade capability - including hiring private sector staff - in his new department of international trade. Mr Fox's department will wrap in the work of UK Trade and Investment - which is being abolished - bring together the functions currently performed by UKTI, UK Export Finance and the business department's trade policy and export control roles. Mr Obama warned before the referendum that Britain would be "at the back of the queue" in seeking a deal with Britain, while the Leavers insisted that breaking free of the EU bureaucracy would make such agreements quicker to secure. "Leaving the EU gives us back control of our trade policy, and gives us the opportunity to maximise returns from free trade," Mr Davis wrote last week. Mrs May wants Mr Fox, an Atlanticist with strong links to the US Republican party to prove it; she also wants the Brexiters to "own" any problems that arise. Mrs May's approach is therefore to put Brexit in the hands of the liberal Leavers, hoping that they
can deliver on her promise to "make Brexit a success", but making it clear where responsibility lies.
During the course of Thursday, Mrs May's continuing reshuffle will focus on delivering on her domestic policies of social reform: a softer, more female face, to her cabinet is likely to emerge
----
waiting for the first post that starts accusing FT of being negative, treason, anti-progress, conspiracy, EU-funded, of-unknown-ancestry, out-of-touch etc.
Theresa May's bold cabinet gambit on band of Brexiters
Theresa May's appointment of Boris Johnson, David Davis and Liam Fox to take Britain out of the EU is a bold move to let pro-Brexit ministers prove that there is a better future outside - and to make it clear where the blame lies if it goes wrong.
Mr Johnson's appointment is the most eye-catching, putting foreign policy in the hands of a man rarely described as diplomatic: he recently called Barack Obama, Britain's most powerful ally, "part Kenyan" with "an ancestral dislike" of the UK. His appointment will cause bewilderment in chancelleries around the world, but there is some logic to the choice, beyond Mrs May's obvious attempt to reunite her party by giving prominent jobs to pro-Brexit campaigners. Mr Johnson, like the veteran rightwingers Mr Davis and Mr Fox, are "liberal Leavers": although they wanted Britain to leave the EU on grounds of sovereignty, they are not inclined to pull up the drawbridge on the world. Mr Johnson has declared himself to be pro-immigration and as mayor he celebrated the diversity of the capital; in his time in City Hall he was an energetic and effective cheerleader for Britain on numerous trips to China, India and elsewhere. The former London mayor, in any event, is not the most important appointment in the May Brexit team. The Foreign Office has been in secular decline in Whitehall for years, as Number 10 and the Cabinet Office assume more power over foreign policy. The Foreign Office's influence will now be further diluted by the creation of the new Brexit department - led by Mr Davis, a Europe minister in the 1990s - to oversee negotiations to leave the EU. Mr Johnson's remit will, therefore, be to project Britain as an internationalist and open country to a sceptical world; his canvas will be the world beyond Europe, with a particular focus on China, India and the US, where he was born.
Mr Davis, a 67-year-old civil liberties champion, who contested the Tory leadership against David Cameron in 2005, is perhaps the more significant appointment. He will now have to brush down his EU negotiating skills - last deployed as Europe minister in the mid-1990s in the period between the Maastricht and Amsterdam treaties - as the secretary of state for Exiting the European Union. Mr Davis gave his thoughts on this task earlier this week, arguing that Britain should take its time before triggering the Article 50 divorce clause, suggesting that should not happen until the end of this year or in early 2017. "Constitutional propriety requires us to consult with the Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish governments first," he wrote on the Conservative Home website. "Common sense implies that we should consult with stakeholders like the City, CBI, TUC, small business bodies, the NFU, universities and research foundations and the like." Mr Davis says that none of those bodies should have "any sort of veto" but the consultation will undoubtedly produce a clear result: all of those bodies will want the maximum possible access to the single market. The new minister declared: "The ideal outcome, (and in my view the most likely, after a lot of wrangling) is continued tariff-free access. Once the European nations realise that we are not going to budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interest. "There may be some complexities about rules of origin and narrowly-based regulatory compliance for exports into the EU, but that is all manageable." If things turn out to be more complicated, then Mrs May will be relieved that a pro-Brexit minister is in place to explain the trade offs between single market access - and by implication jobs and growth - and immigration control.
The final member of the Brexit trio is Liam Fox, another 2005 Tory leadership contender and former defence secretary, who is charged with making good on the Leavers' claim that the UK will be able to strike a series of new trade deals once it leaves the EU. Since Britain has not negotiated any trade deals on its own behalf since it joined the EU in 1973, Mr Fox's first task is to build up a trade capability - including hiring private sector staff - in his new department of international trade. Mr Fox's department will wrap in the work of UK Trade and Investment - which is being abolished - bring together the functions currently performed by UKTI, UK Export Finance and the business department's trade policy and export control roles. Mr Obama warned before the referendum that Britain would be "at the back of the queue" in seeking a deal with Britain, while the Leavers insisted that breaking free of the EU bureaucracy would make such agreements quicker to secure. "Leaving the EU gives us back control of our trade policy, and gives us the opportunity to maximise returns from free trade," Mr Davis wrote last week. Mrs May wants Mr Fox, an Atlanticist with strong links to the US Republican party to prove it; she also wants the Brexiters to "own" any problems that arise. Mrs May's approach is therefore to put Brexit in the hands of the liberal Leavers, hoping that they
can deliver on her promise to "make Brexit a success", but making it clear where responsibility lies.
During the course of Thursday, Mrs May's continuing reshuffle will focus on delivering on her domestic policies of social reform: a softer, more female face, to her cabinet is likely to emerge
----
waiting for the first post that starts accusing FT of being negative, treason, anti-progress, conspiracy, EU-funded, of-unknown-ancestry, out-of-touch etc.
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ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
I can't help but feel that there are many on here, and in the general population, who voted Remain that are actively hoping that Brexit will be a complete failure. In my opinion they would rather the country fail than succeed simply so that they can say "I told you so" and feel smug about themselves.
V
vkurup
Guest
I think everyone wants to move on and ensure we get the best deal and progress. However, that cant stop people from having a view.. I guess the best view on this topic comes from Ian Hislop. In case you missed it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5nI_4uXzD4
bluewolf
Money List Winner
And I'm sure that if the vote had gone the opposite way it would be exactly the same. Or do you disagree?
FWIW, I want us to succeed, but id rather we succeeded as part of the EU. Simple.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
I agree to some extent but think that if the result had gone the other way then those that voted Leave would have been hoping for the EU to fail and collapse rather than the UK.
Why would you rather we succeeded as part of the EU? Does it actually matter whether we are in or out as long as the UK is successful?
bluewolf
Money List Winner
To me it does, yes. It's about European unity. Better Together isn't just for Scotland.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
But many dont want to move on, they want to make stupid claims that suggest people with different opinions are uneducated, racist, xenophobic,old dodgers who should not be allowed to vote and so on, that nothing will work out for the better and life as we know it is at a tragic end. Most of the moaning from Remainers is just sour grapes, doom and gloom.
Hislop is and always was an opportunist cynic and thats what he has been handsomely rewarded for, why should he be any different now. His analogy with the Government Opposition is a poor one IMO, The opposition's job isn't to just say everything the Government do is wrong but to offer alternative strategies if they believe the Government is wrong and support them if they think they are right.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Certainly agree that there are examples of this, but most - almost all I have encountered - want to get on in the 'new world' and make the best of it!
Hislop, and others of the same ilk, are an essential part of any democracy - pointing out the ridiculous (and occasionally scandalous) hipocrisy of those that control much of the country and its policies! His analogy was spot on imo! The alternative strategy (and certainly Labour's general view) was to stay in the EU!
May's Cabinet could well be a stroke of genius! I'm not sure how well Boris will perform at the FO. It has been declining in importance in recent times, but is likely to be more active when/if Article 50 is issued! Let's hope he doesn't make the same sort of Bozo faux-pas he has made in the past! Davis is solid and reliable and, given his EU views, is perfect for that job. He's just the sort of steady hand that is needed - Gove would be a disaster imo - to achieve Brexit in an ordered fashion! Likewise Liam Fox, though more overt in his ambition which should be a 'positive' for his 'sales' role! Osborne had to go imo, though I'm sure he'll be back in another role in the 2nd (or maybe even 1st) reshuffle! Hammond (my MP) is the ultimate, as far as it can be in politics!, safe pair of hands. Given that Osborne had to go, he's a pretty logical, and capable, replacement imo. The postings below the 'big three' and Brexit related ones seem as good as any would be - several kept their roles, including Health, where continuity is important currently imo. Education seems to have gone to a rising star. I hope that any changes there are evolutionary rather than revolutionary, as there's a huge cost - both financially and to students - otherwise!
I'm not a total May fan! Her determination to push through some daft legislation and strategies - that ended badly for her - suggests too much of the Thatcher style unreasoned single-mindedness! However, a more pragmatic approach than Cameron's could well be just what is needed!
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
You may want to rephrase the playground statement ..... After all that is where it all starts
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Sorry! Where what all starts
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harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Shankar, you are slow ....
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Shankar, you are slow ....
Maybe, but answer the question all the same.
Oh! spell it correctly it's Shanker by the way Mr Harpic (Clean round the bend)
Or are you referring to Shankar Shanmugam the Indian Film Director
Probably not as that would be assuming a modicum of class. :rofl:
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