EU Referendum

[SocketRocket]

I disagree, we need someone to tell it like it is. Sorry if the facts don't suit the rose tinted brexit agenda.

Maybe we will have a clear agenda with blinkered spectacles on then or even ones that have the ability to look backwards.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Maybe we will have a clear agenda with blinkered spectacles on then or even ones that have the ability to look backwards.

The most succinct description I've yet seen of the leave campaign.

 

[MegaSteve]

If you choose to listen to the political commentators/pundits...

The 'rose tinted spectacle' brexit wearers were mostly made up of honest hard working folk that were sick to the back teeth with successive 'for the workers' governments using them as scapegoats for every failure of their governance... 30+ years of tories is or should be enough for anyone... If anyone still thinks Blair/Brown represented 'the working classes' sadly you are wrong...

Not sure about burning 'experts' at the stake but making them go out and find a proper job would be a good start...

 

[Foxholer]

At the end of the day that is what they were elected to do, wholeheartedly agree that Joe Public shouldnt have had this vote.

While there's certainly merit in that view, the current government was actually elected with a manifesto that stated that a referendum would be held! So they were absolutely right to hold one!

The result may have been disappointing for about 48%, but (something like) that is what happens in any form of public vote!

The fact that it isn't clear-cut either way is disappointing, but that's beside the point!

What will happen now is that all, or at least most, of the negatives about Brexit will 'crystallise', but none of the (supposed) positive ones will happen until A50 is submitted and either agreement/s is/are made or 2 years passes - and the negotiating period is not extended.

Of course, a cynic might the view that the shrinkage of the UK economy (I believe it has already dropped below France in GDP terms, so has 'slipped' to 7th in the rankings) could prompt a reduction in migration (one of the major concerns of those favouring Brexit), as the desirability of migrating to UK is reduced!

Personally, I believe that there should be more referendums, though not necessarily binding unless a threshold value (perhaps 60%?) is attained. I'm fuzzy over what should trigger one, but the Swiss have a process that seems to work ok. I believe that more referendums would encourage UK folk to 'get involved' more. At the moment, many appear to vote simply as commanded by the newspaper they read. I'd like to see the news media have far less political influence than it seems to currently! Part of (what I perceive as) the chaotic nature of the debate was that this was to first such referendum for all but the Scots (who didn't seem to participate as much as I would have expected) in around 40 years!

It also hasn't shown 'the political class' in a very good light either! There were simply too many obvious exaggerations or downright lies spouted - by both sides - that I'm certain public respect for politicians has sunk even lower than ever!

 

[Foxholer]

...My post suggested his demeanour and downbeat message is not what is required from someone in his job....

He seems to me to be performing exactly as his role requires! The (entirely predictable) risks of a Brexit result are now starting to happen. So, as the real prudential supervisor of 'the economy', he is taking action and making noises to minimize any negative disruption to it. He was challenged before the vote for his supposed political-isation of his role, but rebutted that rather well imo. I'd suggest that a 'diplomatic' role, as opposed to a directly political one, would be more appropriate for him after the 'training' at the BofE!

We need people that will talk up the markets not talk them into recession as has happened so many time before.

'Talking up' the markets was a significant contributor to the 2008 crash! That's certainly NOT part of his role! He has actually stated that (as one of the risks) a technical recession (2 quarters of negative growth) is likely, but that there is sufficient liquidity and backing to ride that out! So a prudent realist, neither a 'salesman' nor the 'doom merchant' that politicians and the news media seem to be!

 

[vkurup]

I disagree, we need someone to tell it like it is. Sorry if the facts don't suit the rose tinted brexit agenda.

Agree..
.. on his style and downbeat mode.. those who have met him would say that, it is his 'normal' TV face. He is Canadian and is straight faced about things. He cant be James Bond but he is trying to shore up the bank. Saw him at Borough market getting his lunch, and he still had his 'wet haddock' look.

 

[Hobbit]

Carney does a great job talking the country down. He looks like he has just been slapped around the face a few times with a wet haddock and then spills out his downbeat message. The sooner they get rid of him so he can peruse his real ambitions in Canadian politics the better, we need people that can give out positive vibes.

How do you put a positive vibe on the £ losing at least 10% of its value? Do you want him dancing around in a clown suit giggling?

 

[Hacker Khan]

How is it condescending? Maxfli said "the state of the economy had next to no bearing on the people he was speaking to who voted to leave. Concerns were all on council house access priority, welfare benefits access, eastern europeans undercutting so putting British out of work etc.'

Sorry, i should have said 'The' people.

You want Salt and Vinegar for that chip? I was anti Brexit before, now its happened i am ready to embrace it, but it should have not got this far. We should have had this decision made for the greater good of the nation by experts who had done thorough analysis of the pro's and con's of leaving, not Joe Public basing their vote on what they read in the papers, saw on the TV or heard down the pub.

Or read on a Golf Forum? But surely no ones that stupid....

 

[Hacker Khan]

Maybe we will have a clear agenda with blinkered spectacles on then or even ones that have the ability to look backwards.

The most succinct description I've yet seen of the leave campaign.

OK, stop the clock, FD has just won this thread with that zinger. Zinggggggggggggggggg

 

[MarkE]

Really? Maybe you could explain where this will happen for people who have nothing or very little?

For many this nothing or very little could become even less as the price of day to day imports (food being one of the main ones) starts to rise and benefits potentially get cut further.

I am not doubting anything you say. Just that if you have little in life, you are going to feel there's no real danger in voting to change the status quo.

 

[MarkE]

How is it condescending? Maxfli said "the state of the economy had next to no bearing on the people he was speaking to who voted to leave. Concerns were all on council house access priority, welfare benefits access, eastern europeans undercutting so putting British out of work etc.'

Sorry, i should have said 'The' people.

You want Salt and Vinegar for that chip? I was anti Brexit before, now its happened i am ready to embrace it, but it should have not got this far. We should have had this decision made for the greater good of the nation by experts who had done thorough analysis of the pro's and con's of leaving, not Joe Public basing their vote on what they read in the papers, saw on the TV or heard down the pub.

You don't think calling a certain section of society 'these people' is not condescending? well I do. It just enforces the feeling among the general populace that their views matter less than those higher up the social scale.

 

[MarkE]

At the end of the day that is what they were elected to do, wholeheartedly agree that Joe Public shouldnt have had this vote.

So you don't believe the public should ever have a referendum? Maybe the tories should'nt have promised one in their manifesto, thereby winning a majority at the general election.

 

[MarkE]

As for Carney and Osbourne. Of course they could do more. They both have that 'I told you this would happen' attitude. It has happened, now get behind the country and stop talking it down. They are both experts at spin, how about spinning the positives that the opportunities outside the eu will present the country in the future.

 

[Hacker Khan]

As for Carney and Osbourne. Of course they could do more. They both have that 'I told you this would happen' attitude. It has happened, now get behind the country and stop talking it down. They are both experts at spin, how about spinning the positives that the opportunities outside the eu will present the country in the future.

Because as trained economists and experts in their fields they don't believe there are many/any economic benefits?

 

[Foxholer]

So you don't believe the public should ever have a referendum? Maybe the tories should'nt have promised one in their manifesto, thereby winning a majority at the general election.

Do you actually have evidence that that's what actually won them the election? As opposed to all the other items in their manifesto and ineptitude on the part of Labour?

 

[Hacker Khan]

So you don't believe the public should ever have a referendum? Maybe the tories should'nt have promised one in their manifesto, thereby winning a majority at the general election.

But was the EU referendum a major factor in people voting Tory? And not the scare stories of SNP pacts with labour and the economy tanking if you voted Labour? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32661502

 

[Blue in Munich]

Really? Maybe you could explain where this will happen for people who have nothing or very little?

For many this nothing or very little could become even less as the price of day to day imports (food being one of the main ones) starts to rise and benefits potentially get cut further.

Perhaps if the politicians on both sides had done their jobs, in this case explaining calmly and rationally what the pros and cons were, then the great unwashed would have come to a different conclusion. Instead the politicians chose to treat the great unwashed as stupid and then the politicians wonder why the great unwashed acted in a manner that the politicians consider is stupid…..

 

[MarkE]

Because as trained economists and experts in their fields they don't believe there are many/any economic benefits?

Does'nt matter what their personal beliefs are now. They should now be doing what's best for the UK. Talk the country up, not down.

 

[MarkE]

But was the EU referendum a major factor in people voting Tory? And not the scare stories of SNP pacts with labour and the economy tanking if you voted Labour? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32661502

Quite possibly all those as well. But the promise of a referendum was a contributing factor.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Perhaps if the politicians on both sides had done their jobs, in this case explaining calmly and rationally what the pros and cons were, then the great unwashed would have come to a different conclusion. Instead the politicians chose to treat the great unwashed as stupid and then the politicians wonder why the great unwashed acted in a manner that the politicians consider is stupid…..

But it got to the stage where if anyone tried to have sensible conversation about what the economy may do or what companies may do or what the EU may demand in return for us accessing the free market based on best independent research, then they got called scaremongers and we were constantly told not to trust the experts. You can only have rational sensible conversations if the climate exists to have them in. And the conversation was deliberately moved onto immigration by the exiters.

Whilst I agree that both sides told untruths, I would argue in general the leavers had more sensible independent research that pointed out what may well happen if we left, and were promoting the status quo. And the leavers had more emotion rhetoric about saving the NHS this and taking back our sovereignty that and a brave new world. Which is a very crude but effective way of campaiging, as the US may well be shortly finding out as well. But when you get emotional rhetoric preying on peoples basic fears against 'expert' research and forecasts then the emotional rhetoric will win all the time.