EU Referendum

[SocketRocket]

Whilst I am not trying to contest the results of the referendum, I do think that agreement should be reached to put the whole process on hold. I am not proposing ignoring the vote, I just think that now is the time for caution.
To me the whole process was rushed. Each of the 2 ‘parties’ in the campaign should have been asked to draw up manifesto documents with detailed plans for what would happen in the event of each outcome and with spending proposals for any savings that were made on EU membership costs. Instead both sides relied on hypothesis, rhetoric and crowd pleasing slogans.
What we have now is a position whereby nobody knows what to dp now. Frighteningly similar to the wars in the Gulf, everyone knew what result they wanted but had no idea what to do when they got it.
To push on now with no leadership, no defined policy and no idea what to do would be madness. Surely now is the time to say that the people have spoken, they have given a policy that has to be followed through by this or successive governments but that now firm plans have to be put in place to work out how and when this is actually going to happen.
Worryingly it appears that both sides assumed that the other one would have a plan in place should the Brexit vote win and neither did. On that point I would have thought it would have been sensible for Cammeron to announce that he would resign in the event of defeat so that it was clear that someone else would have to pick up the pieces once the result was known.

Cameron was to blame for that. He didn't need to hold the referendum until the end of 2017, he decided to rush it through after his disastrous negotiations with the EU. I stated some time ago that the Government should have spent more time and considerations informing the public what the options and realistic outcomes would be either way and without the scare and spin tactics used to a degree on both sides.

Cameron promised us throughout the campaign and only last week that he would remain as PM which ever way the vote went, his current actions show what a slimy piece of work he is.

 

[pokerjoke]

Boris on the news just now saying that "markets are stable" is he for real.

On another note why do politicians never answer a question with a straight answer,bloody liars all of them.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

If the game was won in unfair circumstances there is precedent for a replay, as I'm sure you remember!

Are you suggesting the EU vote was unfair?

 

[Hacker Khan]

Boris on the news just now saying that "markets are stable" is he for real.

On another note why do politicians never answer a question with a straight answer,bloody liars all of them.

I suppose the pound is stable at a 31 year low against the dollar. As it's not the lowest in 40 years, so that's relative stability for you.

 

[jp5]

No I'm not, both sides of the campaign were poor I thought.

But when you win a vote on the basis of an outright lie many people will feel aggrieved I expect.

 

[Foxholer]

Whilst I am not trying to contest the results of the referendum, I do think that agreement should be reached to put the whole process on hold. I am not proposing ignoring the vote, I just think that now is the time for caution.
To me the whole process was rushed. Each of the 2 ‘parties’ in the campaign should have been asked to draw up manifesto documents with detailed plans for what would happen in the event of each outcome and with spending proposals for any savings that were made on EU membership costs. Instead both sides relied on hypothesis, rhetoric and crowd pleasing slogans.
What we have now is a position whereby nobody knows what to dp now. Frighteningly similar to the wars in the Gulf, everyone knew what result they wanted but had no idea what to do when they got it.
To push on now with no leadership, no defined policy and no idea what to do would be madness. Surely now is the time to say that the people have spoken, they have given a policy that has to be followed through by this or successive governments but that now firm plans have to be put in place to work out how and when this is actually going to happen.
Worryingly it appears that both sides assumed that the other one would have a plan in place should the Brexit vote win and neither did. On that point I would have thought it would have been sensible for Cammeron to announce that he would resign in the event of defeat so that it was clear that someone else would have to pick up the pieces once the result was known.

If the Remain campaign was unable to get the message across that the Brexit folk didn't have a plan - and there was certainly 'mention' of it, then they only have themselves to blame!

There is plenty of time to consider what should happen now - Cameron/Osborne will still be running the show until October and, in spite of what they would have us believe, politicians are not actually in control of the intimate day-to-day running of the country. They are, and must be, able to tweak macro-ish controls in order to flatten (or reduce) the effects that particular events might have!

As it is, the markets are actually reacting pretty much as predicted, even though the market predictions themselves were rather awry during the actual referendum - but that was no different to the way in-play betting works!

Most of the actual post-referendum events have been entirely predictable...certainly Cameron's stepping down, Corbyn's rebellion, the FTSE and GBP decline and the admission by Bozo that a) there is no plan and b) they lied (just as the Remainers did!)! Same really goes for the reaction from EU and EU countries - particularly the French about Calais!

There doesn't seem to be any necessity for hasty Article 50 declaration! And before that happens, there's plenty of scope for 'negotiation' about how best to proceed once it is declared. The only issue is the continued membership cost and the potential for a flood of EU immigrants hoping to avoid 'controls' before they are imposed!

 

[Hacker Khan]

If the Remain campaign was unable to get the message across that the Brexit folk didn't have a plan - and there was certainly 'mention' of it, then they only have themselves to blame!

There is plenty of time to consider what should happen now - Cameron/Osborne will still be running the show until October and, in spite of what they would have us believe, politicians are not actually in control of the intimate day-to-day running of the country. They are, and must be, able to tweak macro-ish controls in order to flatten (or reduce) the effects that particular events might have!

As it is, the markets are actually reacting pretty much as predicted, even though the market predictions themselves were rather awry during the actual referendum - but that was no different to the way in-play betting works!

Most of the actual post-referendum events have been entirely predictable...certainly Cameron's stepping down, Corbyn's rebellion, the FTSE and GBP decline and the admission by Bozo that a) there is no plan and b) they lied (just as the Remainers did!)! Same really goes for the reaction from EU and EU countries - particularly the French about Calais!

There doesn't seem to be any necessity for hasty Article 50 declaration! And before that happens, there's plenty of scope for 'negotiation' about how best to proceed once it is declared. The only issue is the continued membership cost and the potential for a flood of EU immigrants hoping to avoid 'controls' before they are imposed!

Oh dear god I hope that happens. As that would be the ultimate irony of this all, more EU immigrants.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

But when you win a vote on the basis of an outright lie many people will feel aggrieved I expect.

I guess it depends on your viewpoint. If we had stayed in then leave campaigners could say exactly the same thing. Both sides told lies. It was no different to a general election campaign really.

 

[Val]

No I'm not, both sides of the campaign were poor I thought.

But when you win a vote on the basis of an outright lie many people will feel aggrieved I expect.

Like the lie fed to the Scottish people was that the only way to remain in the EU was vote NO in the Scottish referendum.

No wonder Sturgeon has her knickers in a twist.

 

[jp5]

I don't recall such a prominent, outright, disprovable lie such as the £350m/week to the NHS from Remain - as poor as their campaign was - though happy to be corrected?

To be honest if there's anything left of that £350m/week by the time we actually leave the EU I will be quite surprised!

 

[jp5]

Like the lie fed to the Scottish people was that the only way to remain in the EU was vote NO in the Scottish referendum.

No wonder Sturgeon has her knickers in a twist.

Scots fully within their right to feel aggrieved, and expect they will vote for independence as a result.

 

[Val]

Scots fully within their right to feel aggrieved, and expect they will vote for independence as a result.

Hope not

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I don't recall such a prominent, outright, disprovable lie such as the £350m/week to the NHS from Remain - as poor as their campaign was - though happy to be corrected?

To be honest if there's anything left of that £350m/week by the time we actually leave the EU I will be quite surprised!

It was Farage that came out with that comment initially and you don't have to be brain of Britain to realise he isn't even an MP and has no say over how any savings could/would be spent. Anyone could work out that what he meant is we will save money that will be available to spend on other things.

 

[Hacker Khan]

It was Farage that came out with that comment initially and you don't have to be brain of Britain to realise he isn't even an MP and has no say over how any savings could/would be spent. Anyone could work out that what he meant is we will save money that will be available to spend on other things.

Boris seemed pretty happy to be pictured next to it.


And why make specific statements about the NHS, knowing it was a mistruth at best, a downright lie at worst, other than to be a cynical dishonest vote winner to those easily swayed by glib political soundbites.

 

[Rooter]

It was Farage that came out with that comment initially and you don't have to be brain of Britain to realise he isn't even an MP and has no say over how any savings could/would be spent. Anyone could work out that what he meant is we will save money that will be available to spend on other things.

Didn't someone sign off the printing of a huge bus with it though? its not just a farage quote that went wrong..

 

[jp5]

It was the official Vote Leave campaign (Boris, Gove, no association to Farage) which had it on the side of their bus and promotional materials.

And I guess it will only be a saving if the economy doesn't contract by an equivalent amount in the mean time!

 

[pokerjoke]

No I'm not, both sides of the campaign were poor I thought.

But when you win a vote on the basis of an outright lie many people will feel aggrieved I expect.

I'm sure I heard Cameron say he would stay on and see it through wether he won or lost,not that this would have swayed a vote but as I said earlier they all lie.

 

[MegaSteve]

No I'm not, both sides of the campaign were poor I thought.

But when you win a vote on the basis of an outright lie many people will feel aggrieved I expect.

Although an 'exiter' in the end I did not register my vote as I couldn't reconcile with a lot of the leave campaigns propaganda...

WW3 and a punishment budget [amongst other utterings from remain] didn't go down well either though...

 

[the smiling assassin]

Guy in our office quite upset today after being verbally abused whilst picking his girlfriend up at Edinburgh Airport last night. Saddening that it happened at all, let alone the fact it was her first experience of Scotland...

 

[Rooter]

Every cloud though, my commission gets paid in US$. Basically had a 10% rise! Thank you Brexit!