EU Referendum

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

and... I thought the talk was about cost, to the NHS, of health tourism...

Ok - some part of the need for translators will be to do with health tourism; some will be to do with immigration from Europe; some with refugees from Syria, points further east and south; some will be to do with immigration from commonwealth countries - and then there are us Scots down here - some of us are unintelligible (though my Mrs provides a free translator service for me)

 

[Hobbit]

Feel free to hang around someone's neck if you want.

Could you cite a (reliable) source for those figures and define what is meant that costs £2bn?

Hanging some on here by the neck is so tempting some times, but I'm sure even you knew what I meant.

And the source was the NHS's own figures, as of 2013. Not, I hasten to add, from the Daily Mail.

 

[Ethan]

Hanging some on here by the neck is so tempting some times, but I'm sure even you knew what I meant.

And the source was the NHS's own figures, as of 2013. Not, I hasten to add, from the Daily Mail.

What I meant was what the figures actually meant. There is a difference between costs incurred by people otherwise not eligible for NHS treatment who have travelled here specifically for treatment, legit visitors who need some treatment while here (as people here do while abroad), and the basis for wider cost calculations. There are a lot of data points available, depending on what you are measuring and how you measure it.

There is also a big difference between the cost that in incurred and the price that would be charged to a paying visitor. Huge difference, often. Saying that X amount of fees for healthcare were unpaid is very different from X costs were incurred by the NHS on these patients.

The Daily Mail has been known to choose data points which suit its particular bias.

 

[Foxholer]

Typical UKIP avoidance, my question was nothing to do with the SNP, it was to do with UKIP

The simple question I was asking, and so far have not received an answer is........ 'if UKIP are so popular why do they only have one MP'.

No one answered because it was a silly question.

Well by my count - and after his prompt - it's had 4 answers!

And doesn't appear to be any sillier than many/most of the questions/comments in the thread.

FWIW, in the 'proportional representation' of the 2014 MEP elections, UKIP was the leading party - which given its 'let's get out of Europe' policy is either scary for the 'let's stay in' folk or 'a healthy brake on the federalists' for many of the rest!

I'm actually a fan of the hybrid that happened in the last Parliament - where FPTP meant that Lib-Dems were able to moderate some of the more extreme aims of the Conservatives. They just didn't get their message of their achievements (which were all 'negatives anyway!) across well enough, or even at all!, imo.

 

[Foxholer]

Sorry to be a pendant but if it's in the region of, say, £20 million it's hardly noise. £20 mill will pay a lot of nurses wages.

Writing off £20 mill is careless at best.

since originally asking, the cost is £34mill, of which almost £20 mill is recovered but at a cost not calculated.
....

While certainly not an insignificant amount, it really isn't much in the scale of a £95Bn budget! As a measure of its insignificance, it's only just more than a tenner overpayment for every employee for example! And it's likely that the cost of recovering that money would be more expensive than the amount recovered! Though there could well be a 'business opportunity' for you if you wish! I'm sure they'd be happy to share the proceeds - at your risk of course!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just been listening to Rob Wainwright - Director of Europol - being interviewed on Newsnight, and being unequivocal in stating that he will vote to remain in the EU given the significant benefits that he sees with UK being part of the EU in respect of security. I await the repost from the Brexit Crew dismissing his view as scaremongering - but maybe some will listen and take on board what he has said and why he is voting STAY.

 

[SocketRocket]

Just been listening to Rob Wainwright - Director of Europol - being interviewed on Newsnight, and being unequivocal in stating that he will vote to remain in the EU given the significant benefits that he sees with UK being part of the EU in respect of security. I await the repost from the Brexit Crew dismissing his view as scaremongering - but maybe some will listen and take on board what he has said and why he is voting STAY.

I would say he has a vested interest.

InterPol has 190 member countries so how do the majority manage without being in the EU?

 

[SocketRocket]

Polls seem to be indicating a swing towards Brexit and it's in the Guardian so it must be true!

'Call Me Dave's' stitching up is not working!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...it-but-a-fifth-undecided-yougov-poll-suggests

 

[ColchesterFC]

Just been listening to Rob Wainwright - Director of Europol - being interviewed on Newsnight, and being unequivocal in stating that he will vote to remain in the EU given the significant benefits that he sees with UK being part of the EU in respect of security. I await the repost from the Brexit Crew dismissing his view as scaremongering - but maybe some will listen and take on board what he has said and why he is voting STAY.

I didn't see the programme so can't comment on his opinion but I assume he gave some of the benefits rather than just said they were significant.

Up to yesterday I was fairly sure that I would have voted to stay in the EU but after Cameron lying about the Calais "Jungle" migrant camp moving to the south coast of England if we left I'm wondering what else he's lying about. There are two very good reasons why the camp won't move to England. The first is that we have a bilateral agreement with France that has nothing to do with the EU. And secondly because if we leave and France scrap the agreement we can strengthen our checks on people entering the country and we are allowed to simply return anyone that is trying to enter illegally straight back to France where they came from.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Polls seem to be indicating a swing towards Brexit and it's in the Guardian so it must be true!

'Call Me Dave's' stitching up is not working!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...it-but-a-fifth-undecided-yougov-poll-suggests

Interesting comment under that article about a leave vote not actually meaning we'll leave but it being used by the government to get more concessions before a second referendum. Is it possible that could happen?

 

[MegaSteve]

Interesting comment under that article about a leave vote not actually meaning we'll leave but it being used by the government to get more concessions before a second referendum. Is it possible that could happen?

I am almost certain that is what will happen...

While Cameron is in No10 he is not of a mind to take us out...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I didn't see the programme so can't comment on his opinion but I assume he gave some of the benefits rather than just said they were significant.

Up to yesterday I was fairly sure that I would have voted to stay in the EU but after Cameron lying about the Calais "Jungle" migrant camp moving to the south coast of England if we left I'm wondering what else he's lying about. There are two very good reasons why the camp won't move to England. The first is that we have a bilateral agreement with France that has nothing to do with the EU. And secondly because if we leave and France scrap the agreement we can strengthen our checks on people entering the country and we are allowed to simply return anyone that is trying to enter illegally straight back to France where they came from.

Yes he did. And he was clear that of course the UK could set up it's own equivalent, but that it could not be as effective, and was clear on the benefits to UK of being in Europol and why Norway was relatively disadvantaged.

And of course I fully expect the 'personal vested interest' argument to be thrown at him - but to suggest that he would vote to STAY because he likes his job and probably gets paid well...really?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I would say he has a vested interest.

InterPol has 190 member countries so how do the majority manage without being in the EU?

He was talking about the benefits the UK got from being in Europol.

 

[ColchesterFC]

He was talking about the benefits the UK got from being in Europol.

Wouldn't those benefits still be there if we left the EU and remained a member of Interpol?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Wouldn't those benefits still be there if we left the EU and remained a member of Interpol?

I have no idea but clearly he does - and also clearly he knows that being in Europol has advantages for UK security beyond what Interpol provides.

 

[Foxholer]

I would say he has a vested interest.
...

Of course he has a 'vested' interest! That's why he was being interviewed! If they only interviewed those without vested interests, they would be be very dull interviews indeed!

Whether folk consider his, or those of any others with equivalent vested interests - like executives of car assembly plants, technology companies, financial institutions and the like - to be important is up to them.

 

[SocketRocket]

Of course he has a 'vested' interest! That's why he was being interviewed! If they only interviewed those without vested interests, they would be be very dull interviews indeed!

Whether folk consider his, or those of any others with equivalent vested interests - like executives of car assembly plants, technology companies, financial institutions and the like - to be important is up to them.

I was referring to his vested interest in being a member of the Gravy Train rather than the rather obvious points you mentioned.

 

[ColchesterFC]

I see that today the French have said that whatever the result of the referendum they have no intention of scrapping the agreement that allows UK border officials to check passports in Calais and other French ports to stop illegal immigrants. Kind of puts a hole in Cameron's claims from yesterday and exposes it for the scaremongering it clearly was. I wonder what the next scare stories will be from the increasingly desperate campaign to stay in the EU.

 

[SocketRocket]

I see that today the French have said that whatever the result of the referendum they have no intention of scrapping the agreement that allows UK border officials to check passports in Calais and other French ports to stop illegal immigrants. Kind of puts a hole in Cameron's claims from yesterday and exposes it for the scaremongering it clearly was. I wonder what the next scare stories will be from the increasingly desperate campaign to stay in the EU.

If we leave the EU the French wont like us!

Wait a minute!!

 

[ColchesterFC]

It will probably be that if we leave we will no longer be able to enter the Eurovision Song Contest. Although maybe that should be put across as a positive thing by the leave campaign.