SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Why not?
EU Referendum
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
Why not?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Scaremongering!!!!
Maybe it is - or maybe they are just being honest and realistic.
.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Because like every piece of evidence presented on both sides, it is either a balanced summary reinforcing your existing views or some misleading propaganda glossing over several key issues.
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
But as for the MMR controversy and autism - if like Dr Andrew Wakefield you make a case that many want to hear as it provides an answer to a burning issue or question, then regardless of what the vast majority of experts say and present that counters your argument, your argument can prevail with the many who want that answer you provide. And it can take a long time for your argument to be shown up as being as false or baseless as it is. And so here we are with the EU debate, and with a lot of folks (on both sides of the debate) probably not actually listening very carefully.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
You have suggested a number of times that Brexit is not making a reasoned case to Leave. I posted those three videos as IMO they do just that. You may of course not agree with the case they make but it is made very clearly and in a reasonable amount of detail rather than brutal bullet points. Maybe you could look at them and explain whether they do meet your criteria for setting out a clear case for leave.
MarkE
Challenge Tour Pro
I think we can all agree the remain side has well and truly won the propaganda battle. Little substance of course, but with propaganda they've excelled.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
So the head of the WTO has said that leaving the EU would cost Britain "an extra £9 billion in trading costs alone" and the UK would have to renegotiate deals with 161 countries. I wonder if Leave think that this is just more scaremongering. I don't see how Remain can suggest that the head of the WTO can possibly be biased in favour of the UK remaining in the EU.
Foxholer
Blackballed
I don't believe anyone, on the either side, can possibly dispute these figures - which are 'per year' ones btw. These guys are acting independently - simply stating what the costs involved are!
Everything else is a trade-off of the 'costs and benefits' involved and, as demonstrated already, there's plenty of potential for 'propaganda and scaremongering' for either side - including within today's Guardian article (that I presume prompted the comment) itself!
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ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
So basically the £8 billion (ish) that is our nett contribution to the EU each year will be swallowed up by trading fees and won't be spent on "our priorities such as the NHS" then.
EDIT - does anyone know why it will cost £9 billion a year to trade. I always assumed that you signed up to a free trade agreement and it didn't cost either side anything. Or if one side imposed tariffs on trade then the other side reciprocated and the costs balanced each other out.
EDIT - does anyone know why it will cost £9 billion a year to trade. I always assumed that you signed up to a free trade agreement and it didn't cost either side anything. Or if one side imposed tariffs on trade then the other side reciprocated and the costs balanced each other out.
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Foxholer
Blackballed
This 'cost of trade' - which, according to the Guardian article is an additional 5.5 billion (I haven't worked out how or whether those figures are really different) - is, simply put, the 'cost of the paperwork and hassle' overhead! It's the entire reason that FTAs are negotiated!
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
So if we negotiated FTA's then we wouldn't have to pay the £9 billion?
I'm not suggesting that we could/would be able to negotiate them but just wondering.
Foxholer
Blackballed
It's £9 Bn for imports and £5.5 Bn for exports. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/745d0ea2-222d-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d.html#axzz49nqmKeDz
And Yes, negotiating FTAs with 162 countries (or staying within the EU) and that wouldn't be required!
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Any links that don't require a subscription as would be interested to read that but I'm too tight to pay to read it.
Must be my grandmother's Scottish blood coursing through me. (<--- joke
)
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
The negotiations for the UK to leave the EU will take around two years, during that period nothing will change. The statement from the WTO is based on the proposition that we will not make a trade agreement with the EU and I doubt very much that will be the case as it will be mutually beneficial to reach an agreement.
I keep hearing arguments that remaining will be good for workers rights. Just take a look around Europe and see how well that is going, especially in France at the moment. The cornerstone of this debate for me is that in the UK we have the ability to remove the Government of the day every five years if we are not comfortable with their performance, with the EU we have absolutely no control over this. Some would argue we can vote in our EU MP's but it's futile as they will always be a minority group who do not decide policy but only vote in minority on it.
I keep hearing arguments that remaining will be good for workers rights. Just take a look around Europe and see how well that is going, especially in France at the moment. The cornerstone of this debate for me is that in the UK we have the ability to remove the Government of the day every five years if we are not comfortable with their performance, with the EU we have absolutely no control over this. Some would argue we can vote in our EU MP's but it's futile as they will always be a minority group who do not decide policy but only vote in minority on it.
I would recommend reading the https://fullfact.org/
Without a doubt the most unbiased bit of information I've read to date.
Without a doubt the most unbiased bit of information I've read to date.
Foxholer
Blackballed
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
That's a good site for balanced info.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Which probably proves everything you read is not 100% true.
Foxholer
Blackballed
:rofl: Obviously an impossibility!
A variation on the old 'This statement is False' dilemna!
Bet you like Maurice Escher pictures too!
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
All five Scottish Holyrood Parties support a remain vote.
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