EU elections

[robinthehood]

No more please, how many positive votes to leave the EU do we need, the people voted for it in The People's Vote and Parliament voted for it. Time to stop all this talk.

No the opposite is true, the entrenched views of the leave at all costs and screw the consequences hard-line brexiters, will have to change.

71

 

[Old Skier]

At the moment we are at a political impasse. It seems likely that another referendum is going to be required to break the deadlock, and whatever side you are on, it is important that that is seen as fair, open and decisive.

Weren't the last ones fair, weren't the votes in Parliament fair? The only problem the country has is that parliament is failing to carry out its duty.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-delusionists/#more-110493

Best summary so far.
Caution....it's not what you would expect.

 

[Old Skier]

No the opposite is true, the entrenched views of the leave at all costs and screw the consequences hard-line brexiters, will have to change.

Unlike some remainers "We must stay in at all costs" and screw the consequences. Be realistic, you and I don't have a clue what the future holds whether we are in or out of the EU. There has even been talk by those countries in the eastern sector of the EU saying it will be finished in the next 10 years. Nobody knows so don't pretend you do.

 

[robinthehood]

Unlike some remainers "We must stay in at all costs" and screw the consequences. Be realistic, you and I don't have a clue what the future holds whether we are in or out of the EU. There has even been talk by those countries in the eastern sector of the EU saying it will be finished in the next 10 years. Nobody knows so don't pretend you do.

I dont pretend i do, Im not remain at all costs I'm lets get this sorted and move on, the *** we are in now is really starting to cause problems.

12

 

[Tashyboy]

Oh deary me.
All the other Scottish parties got more votes than the SNP.
The SNP got 38% of all the Scottish votes. I shall let you work it out.

So the SNP GOT 37.7% of the vote yet have 50% of the seats. Who counted the votes, Jimmy Krankie.😳🤔

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Oh deary me.
All the other Scottish parties got more votes than the SNP.
The SNP got 38% of all the Scottish votes. I shall let you work it out.

What other Scottish Parties ? I believe there is only one ? The SNP - the others are UK parties plus ones in NI and one in Wales ?!

And why are you talking about a Scottish vote - this was a UK wide vote

 

[Grant85]

Weren't the last ones fair, weren't the votes in Parliament fair? The only problem the country has is that parliament is failing to carry out its duty.

I didn't say it was unfair. But in the 2016 referendum, Leave could mean a lot of different things. A confirmatory referendum will give the people a chance to decide when presented with things that could actually happen.

Parliament is failing to carry out its duty because there are too many conflicting things they want.

No Deal is simply not an option because it would ruin the economy and breach the Good Friday agreement.

So if it is so easy, what would you do?

 

[ColchesterFC]

I didn't say it was unfair. But in the 2016 referendum, Leave could mean a lot of different things. A confirmatory referendum will give the people a chance to decide when presented with things that could actually happen.

Parliament is failing to carry out its duty because there are too many conflicting things they want.

No Deal is simply not an option because it would ruin the economy and breach the Good Friday agreement.

So if it is so easy, what would you do?

Re: the first bit in bold - the main conflicting thing that the majority want is to remain so it's no surprise that they aren't carrying out their duty.

Re: the second bit in bold - Do you have any facts or evidence to back up that statement? Not forecasts or predictions but actual real facts? We were told before the referendum that a vote to leave would ruin the economy - emergency budget, hundreds of thousands of job losses etc - but none of it happened, so how can you state as a fact that it will happen in the event of a WTO exit?

 

[Old Skier]

I didn't say it was unfair. But in the 2016 referendum, Leave could mean a lot of different things. A confirmatory referendum will give the people a chance to decide when presented with things that could actually happen.

Parliament is failing to carry out its duty because there are too many conflicting things they want.

No Deal is simply not an option because it would ruin the economy and breach the Good Friday agreement.

So if it is so easy, what would you do?

Leave and all this nonsense of no deal is completely wrong as a number of deals and agreements have already been put in place which were ready for the original date.

I would also like to know how it breeches the Good Friday agreement as there was no mention of borders either hard or soft in my recollection but it was a while ago and memories do fail.

 

[Fade and Die]

You might think that, but from a political point of view, it would basically seal the fate of Brexit as a failure and the remain voters (well over 18 million people when you include EU citizens) would dominate parliamentary elections and likely overturn Brexit.

At the moment we are at a political impasse. It seems likely that another referendum is going to be required to break the deadlock, and whatever side you are on, it is important that that is seen as fair, open and decisive.

Can you not understand the damage it would do to the country to have another referendum?
All faith would be lost in democracy if the establishment ignored the will of the people. I know it’s uncomfortable for you but the result of the 2016 referendum must be carried out.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Can you not understand the damage it would do to the country to have another referendum?
All faith would be lost in democracy if the establishment ignored the will of the people. I know it’s uncomfortable for you but the result of the 2016 referendum must be carried out.

Are other countries damaged when they don’t act out a referendum vote ?

How do you know exactly what the damage will be ?

These “prediction” statements about what will happen when such and such happens are just pure guess work

We could stay in the EU and flourish massively as a nation and millions would be happy , we could leave and bomb as a nation and millions could be mortified and wish the government had overturned the vote or it could be the opposite

The simple thing is no one knows - it’s all guess work - what ever happens will be into the unknown good or bad

 

[Deleted member 18121]

Probably about this point this thread should be merged with the other one..... Lets go round and round in circles again.

 

[Fade and Die]

Are other countries damaged when they don’t act out a referendum vote ?

How do you know exactly what the damage will be ?

These “prediction” statements about what will happen when such and such happens are just pure guess work

We could stay in the EU and flourish massively as a nation and millions would be happy , we could leave and bomb as a nation and millions could be mortified and wish the government had overturned the vote or it could be the opposite

The simple thing is no one knows - it’s all guess work - what ever happens will be into the unknown good or bad

So do you think it’s ok for the establishment to ignore the will of the people? Very dangerous if you ask me.
Re your other bit I agree 100% no one knows what will happen, so all the scaremongering re leaving is just that.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So do you think it’s ok for the establishment to ignore the will of the people? Very dangerous if you ask me.
Re your other bit I agree 100% no one knows what will happen, so all the scaremongering re leaving is just that.

The establishment have been ignored the will of the people for centuries- the establishment have always only ever looked after their own and certainly never been the least bit bothered about the affects of the “people”

 

[Fade and Die]

The establishment have been ignored the will of the people for centuries- the establishment have always only ever looked after their own and certainly never been the least bit bothered about the affects of the “people”

Sorry to be predictable Phil but examples please. When did parliament last ignored a democratic vote?

 

[Old Skier]

The establishment have been ignored the will of the people for centuries- the establishment have always only ever looked after their own and certainly never been the least bit bothered about the affects of the “people”

Gotta agree with that. The only difference that has happened over the last few years is "The People" are a lot less likely to let the establishment get away with it.

 

[Hobbit]

The establishment have been ignored the will of the people for centuries- the establishment have always only ever looked after their own and certainly never been the least bit bothered about the affects of the “people”

I'm not sure the establishment has previously ignored what the people want. There's a big difference between not following through all the items on a manifesto and ignoring the largest democratic exercise the UK has ever undertaken.

 

[SocketRocket]

I didn't say it was unfair. But in the 2016 referendum, Leave could mean a lot of different things. A confirmatory referendum will give the people a chance to decide when presented with things that could actually happen.

Parliament is failing to carry out its duty because there are too many conflicting things they want.

No Deal is simply not an option because it would ruin the economy and breach the Good Friday agreement.

So if it is so easy, what would you do?

I just fail to understand how so many can convince themselves that asking for another referendum is acceptable. When the government asked the general public to make a decision on whether we stayed or left the EU then any right thinking person would expect the result to be carried out. Just imagine if the result had been the same majority to stay but politicians did their upmost to reverse the decision, how would Remainers feel about that? The arguement to support a second referendum that we know so much more now is just another ploy to thwart the democratic decision, all we know now that we didn't then is how conniving and self deceiving Remainers can be .

You post about a No Deal Brexit ruining the economy as though this is a given, even the BOE suggest we would still have positive growth and people like Mervyn King says we should ignore these unjustifiable stories. It is just as easy to suggest a future in the EU would be a disaster for our economy.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm not sure the establishment has previously ignored what the people want. There's a big difference between not following through all the items on a manifesto and ignoring the largest democratic exercise the UK has ever undertaken.

First thing I don’t really agree with “The People” - it’s the majority of the people who voted - by saying the people it suggests the full population. It’s possible that the majority could now be in favour of staying in - could that be their “will”

But imo governments every year ignore what people want and yes that also involves not carrying out promised manifestos

The “establishment” imo as a majority are just self serving - could I give them the benefit of the doubt by saying they are doing what they thing is best for the UK even if people don’t agree with it ? Maybe

But for me right now our establishment is the laughing stock of world politics- they embarrass me and I have no doubt countries are just looking at us and laughing at the complete mess we are in and the determination to make it worse on a daily basis. I can’t predict the future but I fear for it if we keep going the way we are doing. People dream of the UK being this powerhouse empire on its own - I really hope for the sake of us all those dreams are realised.