Elite…. a small group of people within a large group who have more power, etc

justagolfer

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So here we go again. I apologise if this topic has been covered recently but once again it raises its ugly head in the letter pages of the media. Mr Graham Talbot of Saffron Wallden writes while questioning racism in golf that amongst other things the following makes golf elitist.

""It is elitism that stops more ethnic minorities from taking up and succeeding at golf"" I take it he has not noticed the growth of the game amongst the indigenous populations of the East.

Golf can be expensive it can cost as much as £20 for a round ! Of course it can but it can also be inexpensive. Try municipal golf. By the way what’s the cost of a ticket to a premier league football match these days?

""Golf equipment and clothing costs hundreds of pounds"" Yes! Have you tried e-bay or your local junk shop. ( the issue that may put some off ) is that they want to start golf more on looks and swank rather than skill, substance, fun, pleasure, camaraderie etc . You don’t need 14 clubs to start playing golf.

My first round of golf cost three pence in old money. I walked a good way to the course and back with my two clubs and less than salubrious bag. Total value 35p in today’s money. My balls and tees were recovered ( honestly ) from the rough and tee boxes of the course. I hade a great time shooting 143. Which determined me to come back the next day and try to shoot 142.

""Golf is time consuming taking as much as half a day"" And a visit to the football on a Saturday isn’t ?

""Typically retirees, executives and managers are best able to arrange a days golf during the week"" Not then the shift workers, nurses, police, postmen and all the others who operate in today’s 24/7 world.

I’ve save the best for last. """"They have dress codes, rules and etiquette demands""" Don’t know whether to laugh or cry. So we who cherish all that is good about golf should abandon our standards ( whatever the dress code may be at each club ) and let the troglodytes in.

Mr Talbot goes on to say…

""These factors can deter or preclude anyone at the lower end of the socioeconomic scale from enjoying golf. White people and ethnic minorities alike. Ethnic minorities in the UK ( all of whom must be black then? ) and other developed countries often struggle to climb the socioeconomic scale and it is in addressing this issue that the question of racism in golf can be fairly raised.""

Mr Talbot. The people you refer to above do not play golf because of some mystical elitism dreamt up periodically by someone with a chip on their shoulder, like what you seem to have. The reasons are many, but of one thing I’m sure. Many of those “poor” ( lets call them what they are ) you refer to will take considerable exception to your suggestion that with poverty comes a lack of decency and respect and as a result the etiquette and rules of golf will deter them. There are many wealthy/socioeconomic “elite” out there who’s golf etiquette and application of the rules needs a good kick up the arse.

Yes, certain golf “clubs” are exclusive both in cost and behaviour and why not. Does a man not have the right to choose who he associates with and how that association is conducted. Or like much of life today do we drag everything down to it’s lowest common denominator. And ask yourself would that be good for golf ?
 
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Alex1975

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One thing I always say about things like this.... If you are looking for trouble, its easy to find!
 

chrisd

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Oh well, there are many idiots in this world, if anyone is writing the names down will they please add Mr Graham Talbot to that list!
 

Region3

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""It is elitism that stops more ethnic minorities from taking up and succeeding at golf"" I take it he has not noticed the growth of the game amongst the indigenous populations of the East.

Just a small point, but indigenous populations of the east are not ethnic minorities in their own countries. :)

But yes, I agree it seems like he just wants to find something to moan about, possibly fuelled by his own bad experiences.

The other thing I will add is that Mr Taylor's assumption that poor people = ethnic minorities is in my eyes more racist than the things he has issues with.
 

justagolfer

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Just a small point, but indigenous populations of the east are not ethnic minorities in their own countries. :)

But yes, I agree it seems like he just wants to find something to moan about, possibly fuelled by his own bad experiences.

The other thing I will add is that Mr Taylor's assumption that poor people = ethnic minorities is in my eyes more racist than the things he has issues with.

Yes R3. I saw at the time of writing that I had expressed that point rather poorly. Too lazy to rethink. I was simply trying to say that ethnicity is in itself not the barrier for an interest in golf.
 

justagolfer

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Hello Homer, how nice to hear from you again!

That’s a strange and intriguing question you ask. What does it matter where Mr Talbot’s views were published. One would think you were questioning my veracity, and as you know from past encounters. If nothing else I always tell it how it is. Yes!

So instead of following the view of Alex 1975. Why don’t you simply, ( simply is as simply does remember ) post your "own" view on the actual topic. Have a nice Christmas.
 

HawkeyeMS

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Hello Homer, how nice to hear from you again!

That’s a strange and intriguing question you ask. What does it matter where Mr Talbot’s views were published. One would think you were questioning my veracity, and as you know from past encounters. If nothing else I always tell it how it is. Yes!

So instead of following the view of Alex 1975. Why don’t you simply, ( simply is as simply does remember ) post your "own" view on the actual topic. Have a nice Christmas.

Wouldn't it have been simpler to just answer Homer's question? It seemed like a fair one to me
 

Iaing

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Hello Homer, how nice to hear from you again!

That’s a strange and intriguing question you ask. What does it matter where Mr Talbot’s views were published. One would think you were questioning my veracity, and as you know from past encounters. If nothing else I always tell it how it is. Yes!

So instead of following the view of Alex 1975. Why don’t you simply, ( simply is as simply does remember ) post your "own" view on the actual topic. Have a nice Christmas.

And that's a strange and intriguing reply.
Why can't you just name your source? There's a big difference in the context if it was published in the Morning Star or if it was in the Times.

I'd be more interested in when it was written if golf is considered expensive at up to £20 a round!
 

Fader

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Hello Homer, how nice to hear from you again!

That’s a strange and intriguing question you ask. What does it matter where Mr Talbot’s views were published. One would think you were questioning my veracity, and as you know from past encounters. If nothing else I always tell it how it is. Yes!

So instead of following the view of Alex 1975. Why don’t you simply, ( simply is as simply does remember ) post your "own" view on the actual topic. Have a nice Christmas.


Can't see any reason not to answer homers question outright rather than give a waffled response. After all a very valid question due to the demographic of those that may be reading the article agree with it. It's not likely he'd have wrote that article in the sun or the mirror so knowing which publication it was in would give better context as to who he was trying to "smooze" with the tripe he's written.

Imo with all these types of article written, spoken or blogged they're generally written with poor understanding of the actual sport, it's competitors at grass roots and the way to get into it works.

edit: iPhone key pad and long response to thread equals poor spelling and wording due to auto correct
 
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markyjee

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Hello Homer, how nice to hear from you again!

That’s a strange and intriguing question you ask. What does it matter where Mr Talbot’s views were published. One would think you were questioning my veracity, and as you know from past encounters. If nothing else I always tell it how it is. Yes!

So instead of following the view of Alex 1975. Why don’t you simply, ( simply is as simply does remember ) post your "own" view on the actual topic. Have a nice Christmas.

I'm guessing he might like to read the full article in order to make a judgement of his own.
 

PhilTheFragger

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I'm guessing he might like to read the full article in order to make a judgement of his own.

I agree fully, I think we would all like to know where it was published, Golf magazine? national Newspaper, Local rag . Also it would appear that the OP has "pulled" specific quotes out of the article, which may or may not alter the context.

Reading the original, to enable one to see the entire article in context would be necessary before voicing an opinion either way.
 

Ethan

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Hello Homer, how nice to hear from you again!

That’s a strange and intriguing question you ask. What does it matter where Mr Talbot’s views were published. One would think you were questioning my veracity, and as you know from past encounters. If nothing else I always tell it how it is. Yes!

So instead of following the view of Alex 1975. Why don’t you simply, ( simply is as simply does remember ) post your "own" view on the actual topic. Have a nice Christmas.

I don't know you (although I am starting to form a view), but I thought Homer's question was an entirely reasonable one, and the better question is why you chose not to include that obviously relevant piece of information in the first place.

It should be perfectly apparent why the publication source is important - to see how widely the view would be read, to view it in full and context, and to see if any other comments or responses were added by editors or readers. But now that you mention it, checking the veracity is important too.
 

sydney greenstreet

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Hello Homer, how nice to hear from you again!

That’s a strange and intriguing question you ask. What does it matter where Mr Talbot’s views were published. One would think you were questioning my veracity, and as you know from past encounters. If nothing else I always tell it how it is. Yes!

So instead of following the view of Alex 1975. Why don’t you simply, ( simply is as simply does remember ) post your "own" view on the actual topic. Have a nice Christmas.
It is normal to post a link to any statements taken from the News to allow others to read the whole article rather than snippets.
 

justagolfer

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Hello all….Well there you go who would have thought it. More interested in where than what, oh well. However, it's in the letters page ( Letter of the month actually ) of the latest issue of Golf Word ( February issue ) I can see you all running out with your £3:80 to read it… Before you do. There is very little you would learn that I have not already conveyed. F.Y.I. It’s my opinion in making this posting, that it does not actually matter, who or where. I was looking to extract views and opinions from the Forum readers on the views expressed. Vis a vis elitism in golf

Hi Fader, Waffled response…yours or mine?...…Phil. Like others I have experienced on these Forums. You see what you want to see not what is written. I’m not asking for a view on Mr Talbot, the writer is an irrelevance. Ethan. love to hear “your” opinion. Like the rest your not really grasping the point.
 

Ethan

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Hello all….Well there you go who would have thought it. More interested in where than what, oh well. However, it's in the letters page ( Letter of the month actually ) of the latest issue of Golf Word ( February issue ) I can see you all running out with your £3:80 to read it… Before you do. There is very little you would learn that I have not already conveyed. F.Y.I. It’s my opinion in making this posting, that it does not actually matter, who or where. I was looking to extract views and opinions from the Forum readers on the views expressed. Vis a vis elitism in golf

Hi Fader, Waffled response…yours or mine?...…Phil. Like others I have experienced on these Forums. You see what you want to see not what is written. I’m not asking for a view on Mr Talbot, the writer is an irrelevance. Ethan. love to hear “your” opinion. Like the rest your not really grasping the point.

No need to get all huffy, JAG.

As others have said, it really does matter where these things are printed, and the whole letter needs to be read to fully understand it. If it was printed in the latest edition of Golfhaters Monthly or The Morning Star, it would be interpreted differently than if it was in the Daily Telegraph. I have a subscription to GW, so the edition is probably sitting in my small pile of magazines to be read.

My opinion on elitism in golf is that, setting aside a few particular clubs, golf is less elitist now than it possibly ever has been. That is not the same as saying there is none. Some of the obstacles to getting involved in golf exist in the minds of those who feel excluded.

Golf can be a very expensive game, but my first set of clubs had no 2 clubs the same model. There are plenty of clubs who offer cheap group lessons for beginners and young people, and that is more important than having snazzy equipment. Many clubs now offer very attractive rates to juniors, students and even people up to 30.

So i would reject the basic premise which the writer appears to propose.
 

PhilTheFragger

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Hi Fader, Waffled response…yours or mine?...…Phil. Like others I have experienced on these Forums. You see what you want to see not what is written. I’m not asking for a view on Mr Talbot, the writer is an irrelevance. Ethan. love to hear “your” opinion. Like the rest your not really grasping the point.

What a ridiculous assumption, we simply asked for the source so we could read the article in question
We do not require condescending responses .
 

Hobbit

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My first thought, like that of several others, is what is the mag/newspaper it is printed in. But it would appear I'm not 'allowed' to think that because I'm not thinking down the particular line the OP would prefer - and God help anyone else who has independant thought.

Well my opinion, for what it appears it may not be worth reading... I've played golf in many countries, and been a member of 11 clubs across 4 of them in over 45yrs of golf. 99.9% of the members I've met are ordinary working class people who've come from ordinary backgrounds. Ethnicity... does it really need a response. However, other than I've only ever come across one member who displayed any racism, and he was thrown out of the club, racism in golf... hahahaha

Anyway, I have some paint I must go and watch dry...
 

HawkeyeMS

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Hello all….Well there you go who would have thought it. More interested in where than what, oh well. However, it's in the letters page ( Letter of the month actually ) of the latest issue of Golf Word ( February issue ) I can see you all running out with your £3:80 to read it… Before you do. There is very little you would learn that I have not already conveyed. F.Y.I. It’s my opinion in making this posting, that it does not actually matter, who or where. I was looking to extract views and opinions from the Forum readers on the views expressed. Vis a vis elitism in golf

Hi Fader, Waffled response…yours or mine?...…Phil. Like others I have experienced on these Forums. You see what you want to see not what is written. I’m not asking for a view on Mr Talbot, the writer is an irrelevance. Ethan. love to hear “your” opinion. Like the rest your not really grasping the point.

There are some really angry people in the world aren't there. Chill out man, it was a simple question and you go getting all in a strop about it.
 
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