JCW
Journeyman Pro
He is -44 points in the polls , thats the worst ever for a party leader , will there be a change at the top , looks like he is doomed to fail for now and is there anyway back for him
Ed Miliband and the Labour Party
- Thread starter JCW
- Start date
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
When I look at the Labour front row I cant see a credible leader, come to that I cant see one in the back rows either. Maybe they need to move further left of centre and put someone like Diane Abbott in the chair.
chrisd
Major Champion
.......... Then plug it in!
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
No! They need to show people what they really stand for but your suggestion is good :thup:
thats just putting a (large) bum on a seat- token stuff and could do more harm than good
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
More the better from my POV, although Ed is doing that superbly. Labour just needs to come out the closet and admit what it stands for instead of just rubbishing everyone else. IMO it really wants high taxes, high borrowing, high public spending, cowtowing to the EU and Unions. If thats what they want why not stand on that platform.
Tiger
Money List Winner
They're all careerist politicians these days - minimal real world experience, no connection to their voters and incapable of inspiring an electorate. I voted for David in the leadership election but when the union vote swung the ballot that killed it for me. Left the party and have been politically lost ever since. Have absolutely no idea who I'm going to vote for come the election 
Ethan
Money List Winner
Rubbish but even if true better than sinking the NHS, robbing the poor to further enrich the wealthy, scapegoating foreigners for everything, cowtowing to big business and serving their non domiciled rich donors.
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
But still, enough about New Labour!
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I disagree with you. (The polite way)
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Ethan.
How about a discussion that debates the subject matter and does not attack the poster. Using terms like 'rubbish', suggesting someone with a contrary view is of low intelligence or reads a particular news paper is not the way educated people should be making reasoned arguments.
Lets hear what you have to say and the reasoning behind your views but please allow others do the same. In the words of Evelyn Beatrice Hall "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Ethan
Money List Winner
I actually agree. New Labour sold their souls in a desperate attempt to get elected, and now the consequence is they have no credibility or more authority and will never succeed as a tory-life party.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Interesting that at the packed SNP Conference they now see themselves as taking over from Labour as the party of social inclusion.
Sturgeon gave a good speech, saying that if they hold the balance of power after the 2015 election they will never make a pact with the Tories, avoid a coalition, and press Labour to enter a pact to get rid of Trident in return for SNP support on other issues.
Amazing that the SNP membership is now bigger that the COMBINED memberships of UKIP and LibDems. Fast closing in on the Tories.
.....and still the BBC will deny them a voice at the 2015 election debates.
Sturgeon gave a good speech, saying that if they hold the balance of power after the 2015 election they will never make a pact with the Tories, avoid a coalition, and press Labour to enter a pact to get rid of Trident in return for SNP support on other issues.
Amazing that the SNP membership is now bigger that the COMBINED memberships of UKIP and LibDems. Fast closing in on the Tories.
.....and still the BBC will deny them a voice at the 2015 election debates.
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Ethan
Money List Winner
The Scottish Independence campaign has been good for the SNP because it separated them from the others.
They probably are basically like old Labour.
The problem with the current state of political discourse is that the big parties are all so much in bed with big business, banking, finance and non-domiciled newspaper proprietors, all the people who currently finance them and provide post-political directorships for them, that they can't point the finger of blame in the right direction and instead have to distract the feckless public with lurid stories of illegal immigrants and welfare scroungers. These are not the people who almost torpedoed the economy, but if the big parties go after the right people, they will sink themselves too.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Rubbish doesn't mean someone is of low intelligence, it means I strongly disagree with their statement.
To start off, look at the economies of Scandinavian countries (including Denmark). They are, compared to the UK, high tax economies, but they also have high incomes, excellent public services and buoyant economies. The old cry of high tax, high spend isn't actually true of Labour, but even if it was, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. It all depends what the spend is used for. If it is used to fund lots of PFI payments, it is money wasted. If it is used for wise investment in infrastructure, better.
Anyway, the problem with New Labour is that they have moved too far away from the traditional positions. After Thatcher, Blair and his kind decided that they needed to distance themselves from the unions and show they were friendly to big business. They certainly achieved the latter, helping ease financial regulation to the extent that allowed the economic crash to land here too, and nearly brought down the world economy. They also pushed privatisation within the NHS and other public sector areas to the extent there are now crippling liabilities.
The irony is that the great improvements in the economy and life in general were driven by improvements for the working man, and that was supported strongly by unions. The same working men (and women) do more for the economy than the rich. Ordinary people spend money which then circulates round in the economy (multiplier effect), whereas the rich non-doms silt off their untaxed money for offshore investments. Giving money, including welfare payments, to ordinary people does the economy more good than the absurd trickle-down economics. Labour would do well to remember where they came from, even if they can't get back there.
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
So policy for the UK as a whole is to be controlled by a party representing one very small part of the country, which, by the way, they don't wish to be part of.
You are always bleating about Scotland being under represented (despite having more MP's per capita than England) and yet you seem happy about this.
More double standards and hypocrisy!
Ethan
Money List Winner
Depending how the electoral results go, any of the small parties could be in a position of power - SNP, DUP, UKIP if they have a good election. Some are geographically fringe, some ideologically fringe, and in the DUP's case, both.
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
Were you around in the 1970's?
Irresponsible union leaders supporting local union organisers who had political agendas leading to the collapse of much of our manufacturing base.
I appreciate that for those on the Left Thatcher is a convenient scapegoat but in reality the destruction of industries such as mining, ship-building and automobiles arose from the ineffective Governments led by Wilson, Callaghan and yes Heath.
The job had been made easy for Thatcher and our post-war recovery had been blown, unlike Germany.
Unions have been a source of benefit for the working man and the economy in general but their (in)actions in the '60s & '70s undid a lot of that good work.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Yes, I was. Some of the union stuff was provoked by Thatcher and she had an ideological belief in their destruction. It really wasn't much to do with helping the economy. It also helped that most of the mines were in non-Tory voting areas. I agree that some of the unions were suckered into the trap Thatcher laid for them.
Trade unions were powerful in post-war Germany, and still are.
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
Thatcher did not come to power until 1979 so I don't really think she was in a position prior to that to provoke or lay traps for the likes of Scargill or Red Robbo at British Leyland since much of the damage had already been done.
Personally I found her idea that there was no such thing as society distasteful in the extreme but it is ridiculous to suggest that she was solely responsible for our industrial demise. It smacks of the Left not being prepared to acknowledge its own, or at least the unions, culpability.
Strong, responsible unions are vital for good labour relations but the example of Germany is misleading in that they had greater flexibility in negotiations by having, amongst other things, fewer unions and a lack of the old restrictive practices.
I accept that many of the old problems have been addressed by today's union leaders. My point is that the damage had been done 40 to 50 years ago.
