Unstable and Potentially Dangerous Exterior Garden Party Wall

[Norrin Radd]

push the wall over and tell em to fix it at their expense as you dont care if there is a wall there or not. you have got to grow a pair and tell them to stick their nose elsewhere ,they wont like it but they might just get the message that you have reached a limit and that is as far as you are going.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Very nice it looks like mine ,but I find the high fences shelter the grass from the sun and wind and it stays wet in winter .
You may need a path.

We are probably going to have the lot re-turfed in spring.

As far a s shade is concerned - you should have seen the trees that used to be all down the RHS...! And there used t be an 8ft Leylandii hedge all down the LHS

The orientation of the garden (SW to NE) is such that the sun seems to shine down it more than across it.

 

[jim8flog]

As the wall is on my RHS as I look at the back of our house does that not mean that the wall is mine?

The best and simplest way to know who owns the wall is to look at the plans. Responsibilty for a boundary fence/wall is usually denoted by a line Ts.

If the house is registered with the Land Registry you can get a copy of the plans from them at a reasonable cost.
Just go to the Land Registry website and you will find the details on there.
It does not need a solicitor to do this.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The best and simplest way to know who owns the wall is to look at the plans. Responsibilty for a boundary fence/wall is usually denoted by a line Ts.

If the house is registered with the Land Registry you can get a copy of the plans from them at a reasonable cost.
Just go to the Land Registry website and you will find the details on there.
It does not need a solicitor to do this.

We've got the original documents from the purchase of the land in 1896; for when the semi-detached house(s) were sold in 1919 soon after being built - all in lovely old script on vellum. Also got the Land Registry documents from our lender when we paid off the mortgage earlier this year. I will have another look but I have no recollection of any indication of boundary 'ownership'.

 

[Robster59]

You made the mistake of putting the patio down before you buried your neighbours beneath it.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

You made the mistake of putting the patio down before you buried your neighbours beneath it.

Thought Brookside was in Liverpool

 

[Bunkermagnet]

My further thoughts on this.....
How unstable is the wall in reality?
If you still wanted your fence to go to your property you could bolt one post to your house wall, and another to the end post side on side then run your arris rails and boarding along them so you would have your complete line of fencing without having any contact with the wall. Of course you would lose about 6 or 8 inches as a result, however the biggest thing would be the reduction of light for your neighbour but also for you and that long term could be a problem if and when you wanted to sell up.
Personally I would be trying to work with your neighbour and help them with the wall and imrpoving their obviously poor condition lean to. I dont think I would be wanting to bring the fence up any higher than it already is.
It looks a very fine job BTW, but just one thing...assuming they aren't panels, shouldn't the arris rails be on your side and the better look be on the neighbours side?

 

[jim8flog]

This a photo of the plans for the buildings on the street where I live.


On plot number 7 note the T next to the boundary at the left and rear of the property. This T denotes which walls/fences are theirs

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My further thoughts on this.....
How unstable is the wall in reality?
If you still wanted your fence to go to your property you could bolt one post to your house wall, and another to the end post side on side then run your arris rails and boarding along them so you would have your complete line of fencing without having any contact with the wall. Of course you would lose about 6 or 8 inches as a result, however the biggest thing would be the reduction of light for your neighbour but also for you and that long term could be a problem if and when you wanted to sell up.
Personally I would be trying to work with your neighbour and help them with the wall and imrpoving their obviously poor condition lean to. I dont think I would be wanting to bring the fence up any higher than it already is.
It looks a very fine job BTW, but just one thing...assuming they aren't panels, shouldn't the arris rails be on your side and the better look be on the neighbours side?

We're actually considering all you have suggested - so that's good to know. A plan would indeed be to fix a post to our house wall and run arris rails from it to the end post already in place - though ideally we'd want an intermediate one fixed to the wall (issue). With panel fully on face of wall that would give them access to the outside of their lean-to side panel to clean or whatever. And we will leave the 'shelf' top of the wall you can see on which our neighbour has a long flower tub - so she can still have her tub. We'd only run it the same height as new fence - and were going to put up tight trellis (so not solid) panels to lessen impact of any loss of light that solid panel might have. We previously had cane screening on the wall that we've taken down for replacing.

But this - well maybe we could have done that - but history and all that. And they have a load of mature shrubs their side that soften the fence immediately. Besides - given we stepped back from building a single storey extension because they were worried about light into their lean-to (even though we'd taken that into account with what we had planned with the architect for a new party wall) - Mrs SILH was not in any mood for giving anything more. We also put the fence up slightly more on our side than we needed to, to miss a little fish pond they had tight to the boundary and that they had to break up if we'd stuck to the boundary line.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This morning I've been discussing with Mrs Hogan our initial approach to the neighbours before getting council involved if we need to go that route. I suggested a couple of things we might keep in our back pocket as compromises. Mrs Hogan went mental with me that I was even contemplating any compromises...

Oh how I wish the Moody Blues had got it right (aside - funny how I haven't until now twigged that it isn't Justin Hayward singing lead vocals on this - it's Mike Pinder. When you listen to a version with JH leading it just sounds so wrong - funny how a favourite song - as this is of mine - gets soooo embedded in your head that any even minor variation sounds just not right)

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I appreciate there has been a lot of grumpiness stored up over the years with this neighbour but as you've mentioned, in the near future you are looking to move. Hold that thought as if this escalates then you will have to tick the box marked any disputes with your neighbours.

If you were staying put then it would not matter but you have to look at the long game here. That may mean a compromise that is hard to stomach in the short term but worthwhile in the long.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I appreciate there has been a lot of grumpiness stored up over the years with this neighbour but as you've mentioned, in the near future you are looking to move. Hold that thought as if this escalates then you will have to tick the box marked any disputes with your neighbours.

If you were staying put then it would not matter but you have to look at the long game here. That may mean a compromise that is hard to stomach in the short term but worthwhile in the long.

I agree. We were discussing that we must get this resolved asap without going into any form of dispute with them - as we don't want anything sitting there when we come to sell up. Just with Mrs H the thought of any form of compromise really really annoys her - even when I suggested as our starting point for a replacement being like-for-like - she said No - she wants a wall the same height as the fence...(which I am 99% sure that they won't agree to and that will just wind them up... )

 

[Slab]

I appreciate there has been a lot of grumpiness stored up over the years with this neighbour but as you've mentioned, in the near future you are looking to move. Hold that thought as if this escalates then you will have to tick the box marked any disputes with your neighbours.

If you were staying put then it would not matter but you have to look at the long game here. That may mean a compromise that is hard to stomach in the short term but worthwhile in the long.

Did you mean to post this in the Brexit thread?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Did you mean to post this in the Brexit thread?

LOL

 

[clubchamp98]

I appreciate there has been a lot of grumpiness stored up over the years with this neighbour but as you've mentioned, in the near future you are looking to move. Hold that thought as if this escalates then you will have to tick the box marked any disputes with your neighbours.

If you were staying put then it would not matter but you have to look at the long game here. That may mean a compromise that is hard to stomach in the short term but worthwhile in the long.

Not in favour of to much compromise , think your wife is right .
You need to sort it out now.
When you come to sell the buyers might want to know why you didn’t build on the boundary and ceded to much ground.
It might be 8” or more but it’s a legal minefield to get it back once you have let it go.

For an easy life it sounds sense but you must stand up to people like this.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Not in favour of to much compromise , think your wife is right .
You need to sort it out now.
When you come to sell the buyers might want to know why you didn’t build on the boundary and ceded to much ground.
It might be 8” or more but it’s a legal minefield to get it back once you have let it go.

For an easy life it sounds sense but you must stand up to people like this.

It's a balance and it is hard to say which route is right without being there. You could well be right, I am certainly not suggesting giving away land by the way. My point was not to cut off your nose to spite your face. An up yours moment is wonderfully satisfying but may bite you at a later date when SilH comes to sell.

Only he can really judge how to deal with this neighbour, strong or gentle, but you are right to point out that strong may be the correct approach. I'm pleased I am not in that position.

 

[clubchamp98]

It's a balance and it is hard to say which route is right without being there. You could well be right, I am certainly not suggesting giving away land by the way. My point was not to cut off your nose to spite your face. An up yours moment is wonderfully satisfying but may bite you at a later date when SilH comes to sell.

Only he can really judge how to deal with this neighbour, strong or gentle, but you are right to point out that strong may be the correct approach. I'm pleased I am not in that position.

Yes I appreciate it’s a tough call.

My suggestion is find a case in the papers or online where a dispute between neighbours has gone to court and cost £1000s to resolve costing them their life savings.
After showing him the cost of such folly then ask him.” Right what are we going to do about this wall ,are we going to be sensible or do I need to go and see my solicitor “
He may call your bluff but at least you would know where you stand.
I would not give him another inch , !

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's a balance and it is hard to say which route is right without being there. You could well be right, I am certainly not suggesting giving away land by the way. My point was not to cut off your nose to spite your face. An up yours moment is wonderfully satisfying but may bite you at a later date when SilH comes to sell.

Only he can really judge how to deal with this neighbour, strong or gentle, but you are right to point out that strong may be the correct approach. I'm pleased I am not in that position.

The boundary between our properties is very clearly defined on all the deeds. What we have done is erect a fence that - over a run of 25yds or so - deviates to our side in total 3" from the boundary line. So at the wall the fence is exactly our side of boundary line - at the bottom of the garden it is 3" inside the boundary line - and the fence is dead straight between the two points.

My opening is going to be something like...

"we have been advised that the wall between us is unstable and unsafe - we need to do something about it"

And we'll just take it from there.

 

[Robster59]

The boundary between our properties is very clearly defined on all the deeds. What we have done is erect a fence that - over a run of 25yds or so - deviates to our side in total 3" from the boundary line. So at the wall the fence is exactly our side of boundary line - at the bottom of the garden it is 3" inside the boundary line - and the fence is dead straight between the two points.

My opening is going to be something like...

"we have been advised that the wall between us is unstable and unsafe - we need to do something about it"

And we'll just take it from there.

Have you got a written report on the condition of the wall so that you can say to them that you have provided the information, and if they refuse to co-operate, you can say well I have advised you and I am recording that I have advised you in case of an incident in the future.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Have you got a written report on the condition of the wall so that you can say to them that you have provided the information, and if they refuse to co-operate, you can say well I have advised you and I am recording that I have advised you in case of an incident in the future.

Think I might well go to the council Building Control for such as that.