driver swing

[garyinderry]

been watching quite a few videos of pros and fellow golfers on the course. with the pros, some have a real pronounced tilt away ( michelle wie) and others not so much (kutchar). they all turn away from the ball. I keep my head over it. I think its to stop swaying in the backswing.

I am going to need some proper help with this as I cant even seem to make a proper practice swing getting behind the ball.

 

[garyinderry]

From my point of view. If you're battling a hook, the grip is one of the things is look at.

As my pro says. Your only connection to the club is your hands and grip. Getting this right helps massively IMO.

pro said he wasn't that worried about my grip. maybe he will tweak it next time. he took hold of a club using my grip and banged a drive straight to alleviate my fears when I brought it up.

 

[sawtooth]

pro is happy for me to keep my death grip.

Nice swing but I cant believe that grip is not going to hold you back.

 

[One Planer]

pro said he wasn't that worried about my grip. maybe he will tweak it next time. he took hold of a club using my grip and banged a drive straight to alleviate my fears when I brought it up.

If your pro is happy then fine.

From my own experience, the grip was the first thing my pro looked at for the reason I outlined previously. He outlined why my, then current, grip was causing me issue and what the change to more neutral would be and how it would help.

 

[garyinderry]

If your pro is happy then fine.

From my own experience, the grip was the first thing my pro looked at for the reason I outlined previously. He outlined why my, then current, grip was causing me issue and what the change to more neutral would be and how it would help.

as the coach said ealier, its more my right hand that's the issue. plenty play with a strong left hand.

watch matt kuchar take his grip in this. he must fight a strong right hand. he seems to settle into it and then adjust it to the left.

[video=youtube;fWM_dBAHGWA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWM_dBAHGWA[/video]

 

[One Planer]

as the coach said ealier, its more my right hand that's the issue. plenty play with a strong left hand.

watch matt kuchar take his grip in this. he must fight a strong right hand. he seems to settle into it and then adjust it to the left.

[video=youtube;fWM_dBAHGWA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWM_dBAHGWA[/video]

You could also quote Webb Simpson and Zach Johnson as other noted strong grip players.

Both major winners and both have solid games.

For me, a strong grip creates more issues than it solves, but that's just me

 

[CMAC]

pro said he wasn't that worried about my grip. maybe he will tweak it next time. he took hold of a club using my grip and banged a drive straight to alleviate my fears when I brought it up.

sorry, but good golf starts with a good grip.

 

[sawtooth]

watch matt kuchar take his grip in this. he must fight a strong right hand. he seems to settle into it and then adjust it to the left.

Interesting clip, and yes by the time he starts the club back the grip is nowhere as strong as it was.

 

[JustOne]

sorry, but good golf starts with a good grip.

I don't agree, golf is about impact, you could hold the club with just your little finger if it hits the ball the distance and direction you want. There's a lot of different grips/swings out there.

[video=youtube;b1ZbyPz4gF4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1ZbyPz4gF4[/video]


Garyinderry is playing off 7.1 so I'd suggest he's 'started' already with the grip he has. :thup:

 

[JustOne]

been watching quite a few videos of pros and fellow golfers on the course. with the pros, some have a real pronounced tilt away ( michelle wie) and others not so much (kutchar). they all turn away from the ball. I keep my head over it. I think its to stop swaying in the backswing.

I am going to need some proper help with this as I cant even seem to make a proper practice swing getting behind the ball.

If you start behind the ball then you're already there... you don't need to move MORE away from the ball.

 

[One Planer]

I don't agree, golf is about impact, you could hold the club with just your little finger if it hits the ball the distance and direction you want. There's a lot of different grips/swings out there.

[video=youtube;b1ZbyPz4gF4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1ZbyPz4gF4[/video]



Garyinderry is playing off 7.1 so I'd suggest he's 'started' already with the grip he has. :thup:

My back hurts just watching that

 

[CMAC]

I don't agree, golf is about impact, you could hold the club with just your little finger if it hits the ball the distance and direction you want. There's a lot of different grips/swings out there.

[video=youtube;b1ZbyPz4gF4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1ZbyPz4gF4[/video]


Garyinderry is playing off 7.1 so I'd suggest he's 'started' already with the grip he has. :thup:

of course you don't! I was quoting a Major champion and respected instructor but what does he know:rofl:

 

[JustOne]

I was quoting a Major champion and respected instructor but what does he know

Who?

 

[the_coach]

been watching quite a few videos of pros and fellow golfers on the course. with the pros, some have a real pronounced tilt away ( michelle wie) and others not so much (kutchar). they all turn away from the ball. I keep my head over it. I think its to stop swaying in the backswing.

I am going to need some proper help with this as I cant even seem to make a proper practice swing getting behind the ball.

obviously working with the Pro, & that's all good.

but continuing in the way of information, this all goes right back to setup the body & the arms position in relation to your set-up.
get this in a little better condition would take a move of probably at most 2" to 3" in the body's position.

think the Kuchar, & 2 gloves comparison is only going to muddy the waters a good deal.

they on their day when all the timing they need to play well happens they can knock it around well under par. doesn't relate to handicap players in the same way.

his game off, with Kuchar, happens when that timing & compensation is a ways off- speaking in top tour players results terms - & happens more often with 2 gloves as he has even more compensations to make so relies even ways more on timing, so why he often misses cuts & isn't as often finishing up in the top twenty.
no one would put 2 gloves forward as a model to look at.

when you look at Kuchar's top position & you'll see he's made most of the necessary compensations to be in a decent position to come down to impact.
3 things to look at given the area of things we're talking about here are, look at his spine angle you'll see it's angled away from target has the secondary tilt, look at his hips & you'll see he's turned 'into' his right hip pocket not onto his right hip, look at his head & you can see he's turned, but his head is still within the stance width of the feet yet the left chest has turned to be over the right thigh, so no turning past the right leg here no movement away to the right, turned into his right side, not way over it looking to get behind the ball.

Reason G you feel you're not behind the ball, sorry to repeat, is the set up which means you start to turn but the right hip is a little ways too high so you can't turn into so you turn over this pushes the upper body turn upwards so the final move to the top is taking your head & spine nearer to target -why you feel you're never really behind the ball. As well as the hips is the very straight vertical spine but you've set your shoulders opposite, independent to the vertical spine angle to create a bit of a false tilt that actually lifting the left shoulder upwards, shoulders being 'held' with tension in the arms & shoulders.
its this body position that's putting you chin near to your chest, it's not that you're moving you head so chin by bending it down.

 

[the_coach]

Then the movement back from the set-up to the top causes the rest of things to take place with the swing motion, weight going onto the outside of the right foot going back, instead of being able to turn into the right hip socket doing this it's a deal easier to keep the weight on the inside of the right foot, & again then a deal more easy if the spine has the proper secondary tilt not just the shoulders, easier to turn fully & then keep that secondary spine tilt angle so your back, like Kuchar's would tilt away from target at the top.
so you'd be still behind the ball instead of having that block by the right hip forcing the upper body in the final move to get to the top & because the shoulders can't complete the turn they lift & tilt so upper body spine tilts the wrong ways at the top of swing.


obviously you've got a good deal of hand eye coordination going on to get to where you've got, but you've kind of found that keeping everything as it is this is where you'll be, nothing wrong in that at all. but if as you do want to progress further, obviously as you've gone for lessons you do which is great, but that set-up ultimately the right hand will have to change.


am just trying to get over something that folks often struggle with, how really a fairly small change at set up, inches, can really markedly affect how you strike the ball so improve, both distance accuracy trajectory etc, given you have a good sense of a swing through the ball & a good eye.


re on the thread all the talk about grip, if you were down at scratch already, had the flight, distance, direction & control you wanted then it would all be good.

but you're not there, yet, so that right hand we see here will have to change & stay changed, period, no other way, but better if it's the last thing to change given you're used to swinging, if you were say just starting off should change first.

you've found with the longer end of the bag a deal more difficult to stop it going left, & the flight a good ways too low etc.
this will still be the case to a certain degree with the higher end but a little ways easier to deal with the clubs with loft.
straighter the face the harder this is with a right hand that's very strong & under in the palm.


quick way to really see what that grip does is take your driver just in that strong grip position you have here & just hold the club out in front of you so the right palm will be facing upwards & the face angle towards target.
this effectively is how the club & right hand relationship is at address. now just simply rotate the right hand counterclockwise couple inches & watch what happens to the face, just how much with this small movement the face rotates but also importantly how much as the straight face of the driver rotates just how much it de-lofts, this is the reason why you have such low flight & obviously why it goes left.


putting the ball forwards, if its been too far back obviously a good idea -driver ball best off the left armpit- but if you start putting it too far forwards further left say off the toes. remember by the time the clubhead then gets to the ball in the swing arc the swing direction will be a good deal more swinging left, closed face so then to stop it going left is going to take a real good deal of forearm & hand manipulation, real difficult to get any manipulation at all at the speed 7 with the forces on the hands clubhead at speed, but virtually impossible to do it with any consistency, forces folks to aim a good ways too much to the right which mostly just exacerbates the issue further.


the way you'd fix it.
is, in practice away from the course get the set-up address position right with those angles re- hip, spine, tension free arm hang which will bring the shoulders down chest down in a relaxed position so the chest isn't stuck up to the chin.
this with good spine angle plus secondary spine tilt means you can then get a full shoulder turn in posture. so a correct spine angle away from target at the top which will mean you'll feel behind the ball but only because you've been able to turn properly into the right hip socket, as opposed to moving yourself laterally anyway to the right.


then you just have to get used with smooth 70% swings with whatever club to hit every shot consistently left, allow yourself to do that, until you get ball after ball going left even if its hard left, don't try not to, don't try to swing out to the right.


all you have to do then .... but not easy but not that difficult it would be a deal breaker either especially when you see the results ...... is move your right hand counterclockwise on the handle around 2" to 2&1/2" something in that ball park are so you get the handle sitting in the fingers & so that the right hand is on top of the handle -this real important.
so then the crease between the right thumb & forefinger points to your right ear (not as it does now a ways to the right completely past your body.
make the same swing now you have been doing with all those balls going left & you will be hitting ball to target much less curvature (assuming your body aligned parallel left to target line) you'll also get back the height in your shots, won't be smothering them, won't be low.

 

[JustOne]

no one would put 2 gloves forward as a model to look at.

I would I'd take his $5M+ earnings, as would most 7 h/cappers.

Seriously though we all know that the 'perfect model' would have a neutral/strong grip with 2/3 knuckles but grip isn't an absolute.

I'd take Dustin Johnsons $24M+ earnings but wouldn't tell people to play with a bowed wrist, however if an AMATEUR club golfer swung that way I wouldn't necessarily change it.

 

[the_coach]

if a player had hit a plateau but wanted to progress. from a good standard to a good cat 1. you look to see what conditions with the impact were causing the pattern of bad shots, so a lot left, a lot de-lofted that they don't really fly so not getting the distance plus the lefts. with a right hand so far under which is the cause of the angst you gotta at some point change that right hand position but depending what else was going on you might well not look to change it first - a player new to the game higher index you change it straight ways before too many swing compensations evolved.

given the shot issues described, in order for the golfer to get further than the plateau they have come to a bit of a halt on, being already a single digit, much harder to progress down a ways without some change.
given good degree of hand eye coordination, good positive swing intent, issues often stem from the golfers intent to make a swing given the set-up they have become used to putting themselves in.

number of actual distance in inches of movement in address set up to change would in the scheme of things be really small, but would fix the bunch of the swing motion issues, so be able to make a full shoulder turn behind the ball, an hour you pretty much crack that, but nearly all of the shots would be going left by some way & de-lofted. give a good player license to do that on the practice ground get it happening shot for shot, then with just a small counterclockwise movement of that right hand you'd be back in the ball park, shots to target, distance through flight back, shots starting to line with a deal less curvature, height back so stop on the greens, would make a huge difference for sure.
you would with an issue like this have to change that right hand. might be able to stay playing around index with the right hand but would become increasingly difficult. very difficult to progress without doing so.
but every swing you look to fix the issues preventing good reasonably consistent impact conditions, depends what they are as to what you look to fix first, whether you look to fix a grip at all, depends on standard where someone is in the game, where they are looking to get to, many times you'd change alignments, posture, still oft times you'd have to change grip.

the only reason you woudn't change an ams motion with that much bow is if they could find good impact often enough.

Dj's bow the main reason he blew it at PB, walked with the group as much as you can at PB, sure as the day is long it casues him under pressure to block, block slice the long shots, & chunk the pitches, soon as that timing hip rotation & body out of whack, bang off it goes, did it again same thing at your Open.
Always going to go that ways if he can't control the pressure of the big ones, especially down the stretch.

2 gloves supported himself before he got on tour by money games, betting that's how he supported himself before he got the break on The Big Break. mentally tough with getting that ball to drop. but so many compensations even more timing issues why he's either up or down, but not up that often, done a fantastic job with what he has.

as Trevino said pressure is playing $10 a corner with everything in, when you know you have the only $5 you have in the world in your pocket on the 1st

 

[garyinderry]

doing some drills in the house with spine tilt. don't want to hit any balls until I get this feeling of not doing a reverse pivot!




thanks for the tips chaps. ill work on this and log the progress. :thup:

 

[One Planer]

doing some drills in the house with spine tilt. don't want to hit any balls until I get this feeling of not doing a reverse pivot!




thanks for the tips chaps. ill work on this and log the progress. :thup:

This is something I've been in conversation with a few folk on here about based on previous swings video'd during lessons.

An example of my old address position here:

Very similar to how you set up now. Level hips and little to no secondary tilt away from target.

Now, at address I set up as previously but bump my hips laterally, literally an inch toward target. This has the effect of lowering my right hip and adding the secondary tilt required.

Here's a video that helped me understand it a little better:

[video=youtube;84uJjka8BPM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84uJjka8BPM[/video]

Hopefully this will help you out a little pal :thup:

 

[One Planer]

... And another

[video=youtube;AaScFXmMuao]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaScFXmMuao[/video]