Do you think this is a valid solution to slow play?

[Slab]

So are you saying it's near impossible to get the golfers to play more quickly so clubs have to just accept it?

Not quite, I'm suggesting that it’s near impossible to get all 4 aspects under total control so it’s a flawed equation as it doesn’t consider variables sufficiently

Some of the variables have limited control & will never be 100% controllable

One example, do all clubs adjust spacing off the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] during heavy rain (when compared to their own dry weather spacing?) giving some control of weather but it’s an aspect that’ll never be 100% controllable

 

[bobmac]

I see the theory of playing s/ford SHOULD be quicker but as others have said, folk just don't pick up, they keep playing and why shouldn't they?
The problem as I see it is not how long it takes to play 18 holes, it's how much of that time is spent waiting.
If the weather is bad, it's the same for all so everyone will take longer.
It's standing waiting for someone who just takes forever to hit the dam thing and then duffs it. Then they have to do it all again 30 yds down the fairway, or take 5 mins to read a putt, or marks their card on the green or on the next tee when it's their honour, or parks their trolley in the wrong place etc etc. And then doesn't call the group behind through.
Get a marshall out there to wander round and keep checks on what's happening. Players will soon learn how to play quicker without having to rush.

 

[bladeplayer]

say for instance you have a full time sheet from 8am onwards the first 10/12 groups have no bother then it starts to get slow , so it has to be the players not the format ? doesnt it ? surely the people responsible for running the club should be capable of seeing this , if the cant see something as simple as this they are missing other bigger more important things ?
On a side note mayb the boom time / Celtic Tiger as it was called over here has made us all a little more impatient , once again a people problem not a format one ..

 

[richart]

I blame Pro's Bob that teach five minute pre shot routines.

 

[Slab]

I see the theory of playing s/ford SHOULD be quicker but as others have said, folk just don't pick up, they keep playing and why shouldn't they?
The problem as I see it is not how long it takes to play 18 holes, it's how much of that time is spent waiting.
If the weather is bad, it's the same for all so everyone will take longer.
It's standing waiting for someone who just takes forever to hit the dam thing and then duffs it. Then they have to do it all again 30 yds down the fairway, or take 5 mins to read a putt, or marks their card on the green or on the next tee when it's their honour, or parks their trolley in the wrong place etc etc. And then doesn't call the group behind through.
Get a marshall out there to wander round and keep checks on what's happening. Players will soon learn how to play quicker without having to rush.

I see where you’re coming from but flip it round, if the other 3 areas were working to near optimum it would by default minimise the overall round time even if you did nothing about course sleepers/ditherers (which I’m not advocating)

Another example, (accepting that two wrongs don’t make a right) what good is a Course Marshall if the first cut of rough is 6 inches long because one of the ground staff is off sick (& what adjustment to spacing as been put in because of this)

Often all I read is moans (same as I do) about the pace/conduct of slower players when few actually point the finger at their beloved clubs. Players is the softest target of the 4 and the most difficult to manage (because we’re dealing with individuals)

In the OP’s example & to the clubs credit, they are looking at more obscure solutions (albeit still focussed on the player but as I mentioned this could be in conjunction with other initiatives)

I’ve seen the tight spacing argument answered by the balance of a golf club is a business/maximise revenue etc (which is correct) but I would then expect them to conduct all issues as a business would & only targeting ¼ of the problem is very un-businesslike

Clubs are responsible for nearly ¾ of the causes of a slow pace of play, theres your primary target

 

[bobmac]

I agree if the rough is up, players can lose time looking for their balls, but there are rules to cater for this, you call the guys behind through.
I still believe it's the time individuals take over each shot that takes the time. They wait till it's their turn, then they start getting a yardage, checking their lie/wind/compass/temprature/slope/10 practice swings etc etc. Because thats what the guys on the telly do.
Get on with it. :angry:

 

[Monty_Brown]

Not putting out a handful of times in a round DOES NOT alleviate the following bigger wastes of time:

Players not ready to play when it's their turn
Searching for lost balls
Leaving bags/trollies on the wrong side of the green.
Hacking 4 shots to the green takes longer than 2.
Farting about to decide who is "away" when one player is patently ready and should just hit the thing.

And the abandoning to tradition is awful any way.

 

[Matty]

I think the club deserves at least some credit for attempting to speed up play.

It's something we all have a moan about now and then, we all have our own ideas on what could be done to fix it too. But in reality there is no easy solution - if there was we would not have slow play.

Perhaps as someone above has suggested a start and finish time on the card with a local rule defining the maximum length of the round. If you come back in with a time over that which is allotted then it's a DQ. Harsh if you are behind a slow group that holds you up but might just encourage players to ask to be let through by slower groups so they don't get held back.

The other solution is better tee slot management by the club to ensure groups don't bunch in the first place perhaps.

 

[Snelly]

A bad idea. The trophies should stay as stroke play events. Idiotic to suggest otherwise.

The wider issue of slow play is a malaise of the modern game. I am with Richart - marshalls with severe penalties are the best quick fix.


It is also interesting to note that on this thread, there are no posts defending the right of the golfer to "play at his own speed, I don't like being rushed, so what if I want to take my time and smell the roses" etc.

Surprising as they are normally numerous whenever a thread on the pace of play is running.

 

[Slab]

say for instance you have a full time sheet from 8am onwards the first 10/12 groups have no bother then it starts to get slow , so it has to be the players not the format ? doesnt it ? surely the people responsible for running the club should be capable of seeing this , if the cant see something as simple as this they are missing other bigger more important things ?
On a side note mayb the boom time / Celtic Tiger as it was called over here has made us all a little more impatient , once again a people problem not a format one ..

Not really blade, I bow to the greater golfing experience of other forum menbers but would suugest that in your example should you not look at the cause that sllowed the first 10/12 groups to keep pace that is also responsible for the slow play coming in

There are slow players but by disproportionally foccusing on them we miss the bigger picture

 

[pbrown7582]

disgraceful and cant see if speeding up play how many people actually pick up these days when they cant score from my recent expieriences i would say 50/50

 

[Slab]

I agree if the rough is up, players can lose time looking for their balls, but there are rules to cater for this, you call the guys behind through.
I still believe it's the time individuals take over each shot that takes the time. They wait till it's their turn, then they start getting a yardage, checking their lie/wind/compass/temprature/slope/10 practice swings etc etc. Because thats what the guys on the telly do.
Get on with it. :angry:

To throw in a paradox, we're saying then that some of the group of members who wouldn’t dare arrive without jacket/tie after 7pm, wouldn't wear shorts with external pockets/short socks etc because it would breach a club code/rule, contains some of the same people that will breach another club code/rule on pace of play by not being ready when it’s their turn to play/not allowing a group through etc etc

I wonder how this is justified in their minds

 

[Pants]

Get rid of the "honour" idea.

If you are at your ball, ready to play (and it's safe to do so), hit the damn thing. So much time is wasted by just standing by your ball while waiting for someone else to stop faffing about before it's your turn to play.

First to the next tee box tees off.

Simples

 

[USER1999]

We lost ages on Saturday searching for balls under all the fallen leaves. Sometimes even in the middle of the fairway. The low sun did not help either.

So, cut all the trees down, and play at night. Sorted.

 

[DaveM]

Look in Golf Monthly this month. Main articial on slow play. One club has changed its tee time gapes to 10mins. They say this has been a major thing in reducing the time of rounds to 4hr 11min.



OOPs sorry Golf World.

 

[USER1999]

They have reduced it to 4 11?

Flipping heck, how slow was it to start with?

 

[chrisd]

I usually play soon after 8 on a Sunday morning and the football on Sky starts at 4 pm, drive each way 15 mins, so 7 hours to kill - more than enough time for 9 holes even if the Captain insist on gatecrashing the 1st tee


Chris

 

[Slab]

I know I’m harping on about spacing but I do think its impact is underestimated

Perhaps a poll on what the actual spacing is at courses? Bearing in mind the minimum is supposed to be 8 minutes for a pair & 10 for 3 or 4 ball

Another aspect is our expectations of how long it should take. Rough numbers but we have a pace of play guideline allowing an average 10 minutes 30 seconds per hole tee to tee for a two ball & 11:10 for a three ball & 12:45 for a four ball (based on the 3hrs 10, 3:30 & 3:50 timelines)

That’s 2 minutes 15 seconds per hole for a four ball over a pair.

Let’s take a typical hole of par 4 with average h/cap of 20, so about 10 shots extra to be played by the 2nd pair, that’s just 13 seconds per shot from point of address to the ball coming to rest.

I wonder how our own shot durations compare to this? If over 13 seconds you’re a slow player!


edit to add: & that's assuming you've taken all readings, practice swings, aligments etc before this time starts (although might be bad form if close to other players)

 

[bobmac]

I dont get the difference in teeing off behind a slower group whether it's at 8 mins or 10 min intervals.
If they are slower than my group, we are still going to catch them up and have to wait. It just means we'll catch them up on the 3rd tee and not the second

 

[Imurg]

Spacing does have an impact.
Our 1st hole has a tricky carry over a diagonal stream. Many don't take it on and lay-up leaving well in excess of 200 to the green.
What happens mostly - we have no starter - is that as soon as the group ahead are over the bridge that crosses the stream, the next group tee -off. Unless someone is going for the carry they will often be hitting their 2nd shots (laying up again) while the first group is on the green -it also plays into the wind - but the 3rd group have now played their tee shots as the 2nd group have crossed the bridge.
So you have 3 groups - effectively 4 as there is now a group on the tee - on a 380 yard hole.
They should wait at least 8 minutes between groups. That would give the first group time to at least get to the green thereby creating a gap.
Common sense really but it hardly ever happens.

And don't forget, slow play can be down to one or 2 players having a nightmare. If, on every hole, someone from a group drives into rough and a ball hunt begins then it's going to slow everythig down. As long as they wave following groups through at the correct time the only really slow group will be the one with the players having a 'mare and you can't penalise for that.