Open Competitions - What is a valid handicap

Thread starter #1

GG26

Challenge Tour Pro
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
1,450
I made entries for me and my PP into a few opens earlier in the week. I saw the following stipulations in different instances

i) With it now possible for a nomad to get an official handicap I noted that many, if not nearly all, state that you must be a member of a club to enter.

ii) Many state that three competition scores must be on the handicap record in the previous 12 months, which presumably is to cover the old rule over what was an active competition handicap.

iii) One stated that no more than six of the 20 scores on which your WHS handicap is based can be from general play. This seems to be contrary to the encouragement to put in general play scores.

iv) The HI limit requirement can vary considerably and it would be helpful if clubs would state that higher handicaps are permitted, but the max shots received is x. Some make this clear, but most don’t. This is particularly relevant to my PP, who has a HI of 24.7, but many comps we would enter state a maximum of 24.0.

Any thoughts on the above, or have you seen any other criteria?
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
1,770
The organisers of an open comp are perfectly free to define the entry criteria as they see fit.

Players can either accept the criteria and enter the comp, or they can choose not to.

It's as simple as that really.

Yes, regarding your 4th point, sometimes clubs could be clearer in terms of the handicap that is used to determine the entry.
 

Boomy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2020
Messages
735
I made entries for me and my PP into a few opens earlier in the week. I saw the following stipulations in different instances

i) With it now possible for a nomad to get an official handicap I noted that many, if not nearly all, state that you must be a member of a club to enter.

ii) Many state that three competition scores must be on the handicap record in the previous 12 months, which presumably is to cover the old rule over what was an active competition handicap.

iii) One stated that no more than six of the 20 scores on which your WHS handicap is based can be from general play. This seems to be contrary to the encouragement to put in general play scores.

iv) The HI limit requirement can vary considerably and it would be helpful if clubs would state that higher handicaps are permitted, but the max shots received is x. Some make this clear, but most don’t. This is particularly relevant to my PP, who has a HI of 24.7, but many comps we would enter state a maximum of 24.0.

Any thoughts on the above, or have you seen any other criteria?
It would be really helpful if they fully explained about their handicap limit expectations, we have experienced this issue as well. Some clubs are happy for a 22 handicapper to enter the open and play them off the maximum 18 allowed, to other clubs if they put 18 max, then that’s it, 18 max. It would be good if there were a standardised criteria/layout for open entries (obviously clubs could fully set their own rules within that layout)
 

Banchory Buddha

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Messages
843
I made entries for me and my PP into a few opens earlier in the week. I saw the following stipulations in different instances

i) With it now possible for a nomad to get an official handicap I noted that many, if not nearly all, state that you must be a member of a club to enter.

ii) Many state that three competition scores must be on the handicap record in the previous 12 months, which presumably is to cover the old rule over what was an active competition handicap.

iii) One stated that no more than six of the 20 scores on which your WHS handicap is based can be from general play. This seems to be contrary to the encouragement to put in general play scores.

iv) The HI limit requirement can vary considerably and it would be helpful if clubs would state that higher handicaps are permitted, but the max shots received is x. Some make this clear, but most don’t. This is particularly relevant to my PP, who has a HI of 24.7, but many comps we would enter state a maximum of 24.0.

Any thoughts on the above, or have you seen any other criteria?
i) Total agreement with them, we will be doing the same. Most cried out for this when the non-club handicap schemes were introduced

ii) Up to them

iii) Up to them

iv) The point being that they don't really want higher handicaps than that entering


Ultimately it is up to each club to set the criteria for entry, just as it is with internal club competitions. I'm not really seeing what you've got to complain about
 
Thread starter #5

GG26

Challenge Tour Pro
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
1,450
i) Total agreement with them, we will be doing the same. Most cried out for this when the non-club handicap schemes were introduced

ii) Up to them

iii) Up to them

iv) The point being that they don't really want higher handicaps than that entering


Ultimately it is up to each club to set the criteria for entry, just as it is with internal club competitions. I'm not really seeing what you've got to complain about
The only minor irritation is point iv. The others were just put there to show what different clubs do.

Re iv. I agree that the clubs can set the maximum shots allowed, my point is that in some cases they allow higher handicappers, but restricted to a maximum number of shots which is fine, but in many cases they do not make this clear. It’s the clarity that I am after.
 

evemccc

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
557
It would be really helpful if they fully explained about their handicap limit expectations, we have experienced this issue as well. Some clubs are happy for a 22 handicapper to enter the open and play them off the maximum 18 allowed, to other clubs if they put 18 max, then that’s it, 18 max. It would be good if there were a standardised criteria/layout for open entries (obviously clubs could fully set their own rules within that layout)
Saunton’s computerised booking doesn’t allow for the player’s registered CDH HI to be anything higher than what they advertise as their handicap limit..




Disappointingly😜😂
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
10,716
Location
Yeovil
Sometimes the problems arise because Committee /Club Officials devise the posters/entry forms with only a little handicap knowledge.

I expect you will see quite a few with saying handicap limit without saying which handicap. Really they should be saying the handicap index with decimal points worked out to achieve the max course handicap at their own club club.

Some clubs have probably not revised their posters in line with the WHS.

Our requirement will be a minimum of 5 scores on a players record recorded in the previous 12 months.

We allow player with a higher handicap to enter but the number of shots is limited to a maximum We had one year when only players up to the maximum were allowed but we lost around 30% or regular entrants as a result.
 

wjemather

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
882
Location
Bristol
Some of these entry requirements can be quite onerous to check, especially for competitions of any size, and as a result will probably only get done for prize winners. As such, it would surely be better (and easier) to have conditions on trophies/prizes rather than entries?

Many conditions are also based on a false presumption that cheats have high handicaps, don't join golf clubs and/or only manipulate their handicap through general play scores.
 

fundy

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
23,314
Location
Herts/Beds border
Some of these entry requirements can be quite onerous to check, especially for competitions of any size, and as a result will probably only get done for prize winners. As such, it would surely be better (and easier) to have conditions on trophies/prizes rather than entries?

Many conditions are also based on a false presumption that cheats have high handicaps, don't join golf clubs and/or only manipulate their handicap through general play scores.

I remember when Opens were a way for a club to advertise its course and facilities, surely the local golfers with a non-club based handicap should be exactly the type you want to attract?

Kill the prize table, remove the pot hunters (club members or not!) and you dont need the restrictions.........
 

Lord Tyrion

Money List Winner
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
19,863
Location
Northumberland
I remember when Opens were a way for a club to advertise its course and facilities, surely the local golfers with a non-club based handicap should be exactly the type you want to attract?

Kill the prize table, remove the pot hunters (club members or not!) and you dont need the restrictions.........
I'm organising for 4 of us to play an Open at a smashing club just on the edge of Newcastle, Gosforth GC. The Open comp, 4bbb, will be £10 per person :oops:. Who needs a prize when you get to play a decent course for £10? I'm with you, reduce any prizes to a bare minimum and you solve most of the problems these restrictions were brought in to, theoretically, stop.
 

wjemather

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
882
Location
Bristol
I remember when Opens were a way for a club to advertise its course and facilities, surely the local golfers with a non-club based handicap should be exactly the type you want to attract?

Kill the prize table, remove the pot hunters (club members or not!) and you dont need the restrictions.........
Definitely. When entry fees are higher than standard green fees in order to cover the cost of prizes, it's obvious there is a problem.
 

Banchory Buddha

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Messages
843
I remember when Opens were a way for a club to advertise its course and facilities, surely the local golfers with a non-club based handicap should be exactly the type you want to attract?

Kill the prize table, remove the pot hunters (club members or not!) and you dont need the restrictions.........
Kill the voucher value and you'll kill your open. Folks don't expect to win when teeing it up (except the scratch guys), but when you do you want it to be worth it
 

fundy

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
23,314
Location
Herts/Beds border
Kill the voucher value and you'll kill your open. Folks don't expect to win when teeing it up (except the scratch guys), but when you do you want it to be worth it
Not true at all, if you have a decent course in decent condition and offer the open at the right price point youll get a full start sheet

If you want to charge a high price and have to dangle the carrot of a big prize table to do so, then youre gonna get pot hunters and have to make up stupid rules excluding people without excluding those you actually need to
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
980
Location
Leicester
Not true at all, if you have a decent course in decent condition and offer the open at the right price point youll get a full start sheet

If you want to charge a high price and have to dangle the carrot of a big prize table to do so, then youre gonna get pot hunters and have to make up stupid rules excluding people without excluding those you actually need to
Spot on
 

wjemather

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
882
Location
Bristol
Kill the voucher value and you'll kill your open. Folks don't expect to win when teeing it up (except the scratch guys), but when you do you want it to be worth it
Rubbish. Almost all people enter who opens do so without giving a thought to the value of any prizes. They simply want an enjoyable, good value day out at a new/different/nice venue.
 

Banchory Buddha

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Messages
843
Not true at all, if you have a decent course in decent condition and offer the open at the right price point youll get a full start sheet

If you want to charge a high price and have to dangle the carrot of a big prize table to do so, then youre gonna get pot hunters and have to make up stupid rules excluding people without excluding those you actually need to
But not every course is fortunate enough to be top level. For your ordinary courses a cheap enough entry with decent prizes definitely helps.
 

fundy

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
23,314
Location
Herts/Beds border
But not every course is fortunate enough to be top level. For your ordinary courses a cheap enough entry with decent prizes definitely helps.
dont have to be top level, nowhere near, just charge a realistic entry fee

have played plenty of opens in the past at what most would see as quite ordinary courses, what they all had in common was a sensible entry fee and a minimal prize table, a decent field of mainly local golfers all out for a fun game, decent company round a course most havent played before
 

IanM

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
7,907
Location
Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
Kill the voucher value and you'll kill your open. Folks don't expect to win when teeing it up (except the scratch guys), but when you do you want it to be worth it
I don't normally disagree with BB, but (speaking purely personally) I look at 1) The course 2) When is it and 3) how much is it..... I've entered 18 opens so far this year and I'd be playing all of them even if there were no prizes.

I got an email from Golf Empire this morning about as series of pairs events, loudly proclaiming the value of the prize tables and the overseas holiday at the end of it all. No thanks. I know what that will attract. Played in one of those on the Brabazon years back... it wasn't very funny watching a 22 handicapper beat my 5 handicap mate gross! :)

Two of my events are Forest Hills and Coed-y-Mwstwr. £15 each. I am playing because I can add them to my "courses played" list. Not expecting "Sunningdale" but it'll be a fun day out! No idea what prizes are on offer and don't mind either...
 

Banchory Buddha

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Messages
843
dont have to be top level, nowhere near, just charge a realistic entry fee

have played plenty of opens in the past at what most would see as quite ordinary courses, what they all had in common was a sensible entry fee and a minimal prize table, a decent field of mainly local golfers all out for a fun game, decent company round a course most havent played before
I guess England is very different. I know you have relatively few singles opens so I suppose less chance to play, when you have the choice of half a dozen every Saturday & Sunday, folks pick and choose.
 
Top