Declaring a ball lost
- Thread starter HawkeyeMS
- Start date
and very wittycheers Foxy, so you can meandre down while your sprinting fc's get there and look for a few mins first, good to know.
atticusfinch
Challenge Tour Pro
The beauty of the rules is you do not have to know anything definitively. You just have to be able to read.
Foxholer
Blackballed
During a match yesterday I hit a particularly poor tee shot into a small wood at a Par-3 hole. I said that I would play another shot under stroke and distance penalty, as per Rule 27-1a, which states "At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e. proceed under penalty of stroke and distance. " One of my opponents claimed that I couldn't do that as we hadn't searched for the original ball, so couldn't be sure that it was lost. I avoided saying the words "provisional ball" by the way. Who was right?
:mmm:
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rosecott
Money List Winner
You know the answer - of course you were right.
Yes, but my opponent was so adamant that I was wrong, that I started to doubt my interpretation of the rule! He claimed that I was effectively declaring the ball lost without searching for it.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Yes, but my opponent was so adamant that I was wrong, that I started to doubt my interpretation of the rule! He claimed that I was effectively declaring the ball lost without searching for it.
The effect may have been the same, but the Rule was/is a different one (just) - 27-1a as opposed to 27-1c!
You didn't even need to announce it. Unless you announce it as a Provisional, you have invoked that clause - whether you wished to or not!
It's also deemed by some to be rather 'better' than not bothering to look for the original that's in cack when the Provisional is in the middle of the fairway. My view is that it's perfectly OK to do anything The Rules allow!
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Yes, but my opponent was so adamant that I was wrong, that I started to doubt my interpretation of the rule! He claimed that I was effectively declaring the ball lost without searching for it.
Next time you play with the guy and the round maybe doesn't matter - get yourself on a green with a really deep horrible greenside bunker and (deliberately) putt off the green into that bunker. Then just say 'taking S&D' and place your ball back on the green on the spot you putted from. I like that one. Always raises a smile.
atticusfinch
Challenge Tour Pro
I would say to him, sarcastically, so what? I am not actually "declaring" it lost. What I do "effectively" is not prohibited by the rules.Yes, but my opponent was so adamant that I was wrong, that I started to doubt my interpretation of the rule! He claimed that I was effectively declaring the ball lost without searching for it.
That's the echo of a trap that many people fall into. When a rule does not answer a specific fact situation directly, people look for ways to analogize the facts to another rule and say, well they are "effectively" or "virtually" the same so I will treat them the same, when a literal reading would not allow that. (They just don't trust their ability to read literally, they say it can't be that simple so they complicate it.)
I think that is where a lot of the mythical rules come from.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Not that I have every thought of doing this but to be clear: if I hit a shot into most horrendous clag I can decide at that point that even if I were to find my ball I would not want to play it. So to save time looking for my ball; finding it; and then taking S&D; I just state that I am putting another ball into play. I do not declare it a provisional - I do not declare my original ball lost. I simply say I am putting another ball into play - indeed I don't actually need to say anything - I just put another ball down and play it.
Colin L
Tour Winner
That's correct. You don't even have to say anything. You can just do it although it makes sense to say what you are up to!
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Good - and in truth pretty obvious and straightforward.
Strikes me the only issue is simply the player who plays a good provisional and doesn't want to take S&D and play the short again as he may not play as good a shot as his provisional. The only way he can get to play his provisional is by his original being lost and so he so wants to just declare it lost. But he can't
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North Mimms
Tour Winner
In a nutshell!Good - and in truth pretty obvious and straightforward.
Strikes me the only issue is simply the player who plays a good provisional and doesn't want to take S&D and play the short again as he may not play as good a shot as his provisional. The only way he can get to play his provisional is by his original being lost and so he so wants to just declare it lost. But he can't
rulefan
Tour Winner
Good - and in truth pretty obvious and straightforward.
Strikes me the only issue is simply the player who plays a good provisional and doesn't want to take S&D and play the short again as he may not play as good a shot as his provisional. The only way he can get to play his provisional is by his original being lost and so he so wants to just declare it lost. But he can't
Play your provisional first. It's always the better ball.
Just a point to note, the amount of people who say 'reloading', 'playing another', 'better try again so I don't have to go back to the tee' etc etc and don't say 'playing a provisional' is vast yet they think they are playing a provisional.
I've had a few unfortunate and not needed 'discussions' with people who do so then find the first and play it because "you knew what I meant"
always best to state a provisional and declare the make and number (different to 1st ball) of the provisonal ball.
saves aggro.
I've had a few unfortunate and not needed 'discussions' with people who do so then find the first and play it because "you knew what I meant"
always best to state a provisional and declare the make and number (different to 1st ball) of the provisonal ball.
saves aggro.
rosecott
Money List Winner
I'm pretty sure a significant number are keeping all options open by deliberately not saying "the words" and hoping to get away with it - cynical old me.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
I always call a provisional, even when I think I am OOB as you never know when the trees are going to do you a favour. On one occasion last year Homer and I were playing our winter pairs match and we were 1 down playing the 17th. I hit a huge hook towards the OOB and called a provisional which I naturally hit onto the green. As we were walking to the green I was looking for my 1st ball in case it bounced back into play and was about to give it up when I saw a second ball on the green about 20 feet from the flag which turned out to be my first ball. I parred the hole and we went down 18 all square :thup:
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
Happens tho doesnt it ??
"Id better hit another one just in case" is one ive heard , ... just in case what ? has led to some strange discussions i tell ya
A few years ago I shanked an iron shot at a par-3 and believed it had gone out of bounds into a wood, so I said "That's gone" and played another ball without stating it was a provisional ball, knocking it to about 10 feet from the pin this time. My two fellow competitors then insisted on searching for my original ball, and after about 4 minutes found it in a ditch, just in bounds. It could have only bounced off a tree to get there. They were both insistent that I had to play it, claiming that a second ball was the same as a provisional! I ran onto the green and holed my putt for a 4 (so that I had played a shot nearer to the hole than where the original ball lay) and then went back, took a penalty drop out of the ditch, which was behind an avenue of trees and a large bunker, and eventually ran up a 7. I recorded both scores on the card and put it to the Committee afterwards. They accepted the 4, much to the disgust of my FC's, who seemed to think I had cheated. It's amazing how many players don't understand the provisional ball rule! 
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