Declaring a ball lost

Hes more than a clown, and is not well liked in the club, but is recognised for the qualilfications gained in golf refereeing . I dont know what qualifications he has, and I wont be asking him.
 
Colin L said:
You are quite right. It is 5 minutes from when the player, the side or the caddie begins the search. If spectators or whoever have started searching before the player or caddie arrives, it's just a bonus.

Homework for Foxholer: read Definition of a lost ball and Rule 6-7 on the subject of undue delay. :whistle:

.... and CMAC ;)
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Doh! Indeed!

I'm not going to start searching for my ball until 5 mins and 1 sec before 'slow play' penalty cuts in then!

I'll happy search for my FC's under those conditions too!

That'll really help pace of play!
 
Right I'm really confused here.

Be gentle as I am trying to digest as much info as possible before taking the next step at my club of playing with other players and in comps.

If I hit a ball and feel its lost, but then play a provisional. Is my next shot from my provisional my 4th shot? or 2nd shot? and if I do find my first ball, is the next shot my 2nd?

I'm not really understanding the anger against this.
 
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Nick_Toye said:
Right I'm really confused here.

Be gentle as I am trying to digest as much info as possible before taking the next step at my club of playing with other players and in comps.

If I hit a ball and feel its lost, but then play a provisional. Is my next shot from my provisional my 3rd shot? or 2nd shot? and if I do find my first ball, is the next shot my 2nd?

I'm not really understanding the anger against this.
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If your 1st and Provisional were off the tee, your next shot with the provisional would be your 4th!

However, if the Provo didn't go as far as/further than wheer your first is likely to be it would only (provisionally) be the 4th. If you subsequently find your first, all provisional play is discarded and you are playing your 2nd - unless you actually played your provisional from closer to the hole than where the original is found (in which case the Provisional ball is the ball in play).

Confused? Read here.. http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-27/
 
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the hammer said:
We have a guy at our place who declares himself "the 8th top golfing referee in the country", by way of examination etc etc.

He insists that a ball can be declared lost by the player at any time. Ive challenged him on this, and he got irate, to say the least.

He says a ball in the middle of the fairway can be declared lost.

For example, my PP topped a tee shot into a gorse bush,"just declare it lost, hit another," when I asked if my PP was in a position to do that, the reply was , as above.
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he is perfectly correct in everything but his terminology!

your declaration that a ball is lost has no relevance under the rules

your act of playing another ball under stroke and distance under rule 27-1 results in your ball becoming a lost ball

as an example of the relevance of this; in your second example if your playing partner had declared his ball lost as described, and got another ball from his bag.......then someone shouts back "found it - it's rolled out into the open (within 5 minutes and before putting another ball in play) then he can continue to play it. He can also shout back - thank you but I've lost confidence in that one and have decided to play another under stroke and distance (and do so if he wishes!)
 
A ball in the middle of the fairway, even if you are standing on it, can BE lost. But it does not get that way be declaration. But once it is lost according to the rules he can declare its status as a matter of fact. IE: the five minutes are up, that ball is lost. Maybe that is what he meant.
 
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the hammer said:
We have a guy at our place who declares himself "the 8th top golfing referee in the country", by way of examination etc etc.

He insists that a ball can be declared lost by the player at any time. Ive challenged him on this, and he got irate, to say the least.

He says a ball in the middle of the fairway can be declared lost.

For example, my PP topped a tee shot into a gorse bush,"just declare it lost, hit another," when I asked if my PP was in a position to do that, the reply was , as above.
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You can declare a ball lost wherever you like, but that declaration has little, if any relevance to it being lost according per the Rules of Golf.
 
Of course you can declare a ball lost - in the same way you can declare yourself King of Botswana or wherever. But declaring it so, does not make it so. Only the passage of time, or specific actions make a ball lost. So are we not unnecessarily muddy the waters by saying "you can declare it lost but without relevance". Isn't it just clearer to stick with the line that you can't?
 
duncan mackie said:
he is perfectly correct in everything but his terminology!

your declaration that a ball is lost has no relevance under the rules

your act of playing another ball under stroke and distance under rule 27-1 results in your ball becoming a lost ball

as an example of the relevance of this; in your second example if your playing partner had declared his ball lost as described, and got another ball from his bag.......then someone shouts back "found it - it's rolled out into the open (within 5 minutes and before putting another ball in play) then he can continue to play it. He can also shout back - thank you but I've lost confidence in that one and have decided to play another under stroke and distance (and do so if he wishes!)
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Surely if someone shouts back that the ball is OK, then the player on the tee is obligated to identify as his. He can't do that from the tee, as he can't see it. Playing another ball from the tee after it has been found is surely refusal to identify his ball and could lead to disqualification Decision 27/13 & rule 33-7?

In this scenario, the correct action would be to walk forward and identify the ball as his after which he could declare it unplayable should he wish.
 
HawkeyeMS said:
Surely if someone shouts back that the ball is OK, then the player on the tee is obligated to identify as his. He can't do that from the tee, as he can't see it. Playing another ball from the tee after it has been found is surely refusal to identify his ball and could lead to disqualification Decision 27/13 & rule 33-7?

In this scenario, the correct action would be to walk forward and identify the ball as his after which he could declare it unplayable should he wish.
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A player about to put another ball into play under Rule 27-1 is under no obligation to go forward to check a ball that is found. He can proceed under stroke and distance at any time. The ball he is substituting for can be in full view.

You are probably thinking of when a player is about to play a provisional ball. If a ball is found before he does so, he is obliged to see if it his original ball or not.
 
Colin L said:
A player about to put another ball into play under Rule 27-1 is under no obligation to go forward to check a ball that is found. He can proceed under stroke and distance at any time. The ball he is substituting for can be in full view.

You are probably thinking of when a player is about to play a provisional ball. If a ball is found before he does so, he is obliged to see if it his original ball or not.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
 
One reason to avoid the "declare the ball lost" scenario...

Player hits ball off line. Walks forward to look for it, then realises that it is in deep clag and is likely to be either unfindable or unplayable.
He "declares it lost" and starts back to the tee to put a new ball in play (not a provisional)
He playing partners wander on to the area where his ball went, as it was a nice new ProV 1.

Before he hits his 3 off the tee ball (and within the 5 minute looking period) one of the others find his ball sitting in a nice clear area and yells "I'll pick this up cos you can't play it since you've declared it lost"

But he can play it, can't he?

So big argument ensues...!
 
North Mimms said:
One reason to avoid the "declare the ball lost" scenario...

Player hits ball off line. Walks forward to look for it, then realises that it is in deep clag and is likely to be either unfindable or unplayable.
He "declares it lost" and starts back to the tee to put a new ball in play (not a provisional)
He playing partners wander on to the area where his ball went, as it was a nice new ProV 1.

Before he hits his 3 off the tee ball (and within the 5 minute looking period) one of the others find his ball sitting in a nice clear area and yells "I'll pick this up cos you can't play it since you've declared it lost"

But he can play it, can't he?

So big argument ensues...!
Click to expand...


Didnt think you can play it once youve gone back was starting back but now 50m?
 
Colin L said:
A player about to put another ball into play under Rule 27-1 is under no obligation to go forward to check a ball that is found. He can proceed under stroke and distance at any time. The ball he is substituting for can be in full view.
Click to expand...

People tend to forget this option as they rarely take it unless there is no other option, ie their ball went 00B.
It's always one of the options for a water hazard or an unplayable ball, but most want to take a drop closer to where their ball ended up, especially if they hit it 200 yards to reach the trouble in the first place.
I'm guilty of trying to work out which is best...2 club lengths NNTH, or back in line with the flag. Then after making a poor recovery, wishing I had thought of going back to "last hit" position:mmm:
 
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