Dando and Homer coaching today

[garyinderry]

Over swing is a real funny thing with people.

They have no idea how far back they really go.

What u feel you do and what actually happens is usually miles apart. Really do need to see it on video or do as paul did and put a rod in the way to physically stop you from doing it.

Good drill for homer would be to take the club back very slowly, then do bobs favourite, a pause of a second or two before doing the downswing.

 

[Dando]

Over swing is a real funny thing with people.

They have no idea how far back they really go.

What u feel you do and what actually happens is usually miles apart. Really do need to see it on video or do as paul did and put a rod in the way to physically stop you from doing it.

Good drill for homer would be to take the club back very slowly, then do bobs favourite, a pause of a second or two before doing the downswing.

when i had a lesson a few months ago i was shocked how far i overswung the club. I thought i was horizontal at worse but i was a fair bit past.

 

[garyinderry]

when i had a lesson a few months ago i was shocked how far i overswung the club. I thought i was horizontal at worse but i was a fair bit past.

3 things I would keep an eye on to prevent over swing.

•don't let the lead arm break down
•don't over rotate the hips. Feels some resistance
•don't let the right elbow get too deep or fly away from the body.


There may be more but those are the things id check first.

 

[pendodave]

Might be worth reconsidering how you go about learning new moves, particularly if it's something that doesn't come easily.

Firstly, look at doing drills indoors - crossfield does a few with doorframes etc. These can be done little and often,allowing the brain more time to rewire itself.

Secondly, practice the movements in slow motion until you have them nailed down. If you can't to them at 25% speed, you'll have no chance at full whack. There are a few instructors who espouse this, I'm sure you can look them up.

My point is, going to a range and hitting balls is not a great way of affecting change (as you have already demonstrated). The importance of hitting the ball, and hitting it well, overrides the ability to make changes to an ingrained habit. Consequently, the habit remains....

I think this is true of many golfers, myself included, so please don't take it as a personal slight.

 

[Liverbirdie]

OK, so the stuff I have to work on from Paul from the lesson

Left foot open to 11o'clock, right foot back an inch and feeling slightly closed (he was very happy with posture as can be heard in video)
Takeaway - outside the line and too jerky. Need to feel arms coming inside, club staying outside hands and smoother for first 6-12inches
Back swing- shorten to shoulder height (BIGGEST/HARDEST challenge) with flat or slightly bowed wrist
Keep wrist angle on downswing (flat) as video shows arms dropping down and wrist cupping on downswing (loss of angles/casting or stuck inside depending of what I do to try and recover in the swing
Rotate strongly to clear hips/shoulders - this was happening in video and will being club shallower and in good parallel release position (you can see the position Paul puts the club in on the video for me to try and replicate)
Release through ball (not opening face)
Curtail follow through and don't exit so far left He'd be OK with a full rotation to a finish position if path is on better line and not so low and left (need to discuss this point further as not covered fully at time and need to understand implications and reasons)

SO NOT MUCH TO BE GETTING ON WITH. As I said there was an awful lot of information imparted in a very short time frame in less than ideal conditions (15-20mph wind into our face and rain showers). Hard to take on board everything I was being told, break the bad habits and ingrain everything. Add in everyone staring at you on the range and adding an element of pressure and it was hard to do everything asked of me. Let me reiterate, IT WAS NOT a case of ignoring what I was being told, more my lack of ability as a golfer to change everything/some of what I was being shown in those lesson conditions and environment.

Once my back is better (hopefully next week) I'll be hitting the range nightly and beginning by working on the address, that first move back and trying to stop the overswing and set the wrist. I'm not too fussed on rotation, strike or direction/distance at this stage as I can't really move on to address the other issues until I can swing back better and shorter.

The plan is to go to Paul in his Kent studio after Christmas or before the season with a better, more refined swing in place and have an hour of tuition to ensure it's working (and correlate the exit questions). As a result, unless the swing completely deserts me over the next few months and I need some tuition prior to a competition to get me to a place to at least get it round, I'm planning not further lessons or intervention from the teaching pro I'm using, bar speaking to a guy who does NLP to learn some ways of thinking better/smarter on the course, but which won't impact the technique I'm working on. I have more than enough good stuff from Paul to see me right and I just need to be able to grind the changes. The overswing/wrist cup is going to be the biggest of the lot but I know if I can get that in place the rest should slot into a semblance of order and sense and I can move the handicap forward

I think I've answered the accusation of not listening to what has been said and ignoring the advice and hopefully this will now explain fully everything that you'll see on film (including the second part to come) and what I need to do going forward. I'm happy with how it went and grateful to Paul and GM for everything they did on the day. I don't really propose extending too much further on what I've put here as I think it's clear here and on film what the problems were/are and what is going on to move the game forward.

Honest assessment.

Just a few things that may make you feel positive, as a lot of what you have said above, also mirrored my initial problems. Here were some of my mistakes, as I had a set of 5 lessons up at Manchester GC (which was 40 miles away):-

1. After going for a lesson, don't go and play against a mate. Being 3 down to Birchy after 3 holes, meant I returned to my normal swing. Maybe even play a few rounds without scoring.

2. Don't get obsessed with length. I used to hit an 8 iron about 150 (pre-lessons), when I had the lessons it was only going 120. Partially being November and being cold and also the shortened, new swing. By the time it had bedded in and was back to springtime I was hitting it only 140, but better, straighter and more consistently. Better game and only lost 10 yards per iron - I was happy with that.

3. I hated having 20 thought swings in my mind after having the lesson, but after a few weeks you will only have 10-12, as some will have become more natural. Over another month or so, you may just be down to a final 3-4. I apologised to my mates at first as over each ball I was taking 20-30 seconds - hated it, but it will come.

BTW - there are some 2 shot a hole chompers giving You advice, take no notice of big, fat scousers.:rofl:

 

[davemc1]

Fair do's to Homer for having the plums for getting his videos out in the open :thup:

The thing I can't grasp is how you can't manage a half swing after playing for 30odd years? Natural talent will plateau of course but even rank beginners can do a half swing on request. Plus, he's spending time on showing you ball positions, how do you not know this most basic information?

Seems the only thing you've got going for you is strike (which is the most important thing imo) and even that's not great if you're only hitting a 7 iron 140 :rofl:


* last bit is a bit mischievous fun

 

[spongebob59]

Might be worth reconsidering how you go about learning new moves, particularly if it's something that doesn't come easily.

Firstly, look at doing drills indoors - crossfield does a few with doorframes etc. These can be done little and often,allowing the brain more time to rewire itself.

Secondly, practice the movements in slow motion until you have them nailed down. If you can't to them at 25% speed, you'll have no chance at full whack. There are a few instructors who espouse this, I'm sure you can look them up.

My point is, going to a range and hitting balls is not a great way of affecting change (as you have already demonstrated). The importance of hitting the ball, and hitting it well, overrides the ability to make changes to an ingrained habit. Consequently, the habit remains....

I think this is true of many golfers, myself included, so please don't take it as a personal slight.

Got any links for these ?

Exactly what I need to work on :thup:

 

[hines57]

Most of it, but hard as we had a heavy rain shower and I've not seen all the footage. Found it hard (impossible) to shorten as far as he wanted and get the wrist position and then make a good turn (to be honest probably too much info crammed into one 90 minute) segment but I've some stuff to look at and things to work on. I'll look at what I have on camera and put something on the channel at some point in the next few days

let us know when you first take the new swing out onto the course and we'll keep well clear of Ascot
Glad you had a great time and look forward to hearing how you progress.

 

[garyinderry]

Fair do's to Homer for having the plums for getting his videos out in the open :thup:

The thing I can't grasp is how you can't manage a half swing after playing for 30odd years? Natural talent will plateau of course but even rank beginners can do a half swing on request. Plus, he's spending time on showing you ball positions, how do you not know this most basic information?

Seems the only thing you've got going for you is strike (which is the most important thing imo) and even that's not great if you're only hitting a 7 iron 140 :rofl:


* last bit is a bit mischievous fun

The thing is Dave, homers insistence on not doing his own home work has caused him a lot of strive in his swing. Couple this with the incompetence of his last pro and its a bad mix.

For a man who sees his swing on video a lot he really should have got to grips with his main faults. The two main ones are the over swing and over the top move. There is literally a ton of videos from some of the most respected coaches in the game showing you how to fix these faults.

Not only that there is a 'fix your slice' section in every second issue of golf monthly. The answer was there all along.

Homer to his detriment doesn't watch YouTube tips as they may 'mess up his swing'. He put his full faith in that last pro which let him get away with murder. As a follower of homers channel I watched the lessons he posted through my fingers. It was painful viewing. I didn't like seeing him struggle and the guy who was supposed to be helping not even tackle the most glaring of faults.

I am happy that homer has finally seen the light through this freebie from GM. A competent pro tackled this faults within minutes.

Don't take any comments to heart homer. You seem to take criticism really personal. People are only trying to help you. Discussion is healthy. I've had some great discussions and help on here since I joined and its helped my game for sure. People like BOBMAC, JUSTONE and THECOACH have helped me tremendously downs the years, but not just them, everyone who had chipped in with advice, questions and opinions have helped me understand my swing and the game of golf no end.

You should use this platform to understand your swing better. Oneplaner is always doing this and fair play to him for it. I always enjoy those posts.

Maybe this could be a wake up call for some of posters who want to improve. Video your swing. Get it posted and get help. Don't be shy.

 

[richart]

I don't understand why Homer doesn't just hit a lot of half, three quarter shots. What he thinks is a 3/4 shot will be a full swing. Easier to have a positive swing thought of 3/4 swing, than a negative one of don't over swing.

Did mention over swing years back, as his position with a shorter swing at the top of back swing is not bad. Trying to help but perhaps not appreciated ?

Does amaze mme that so many different coaches have not picked up on over swing, and the standing up as he hits the ball. I had lessons with Carl Mason's dad, Roy years ago, and he hovered a club over my head, and smacked me with it if I came up too soon on a shot.

 

[Fish]

I don't understand why Homer doesn't just hit a lot of half, three quarter shots. What he thinks is a 3/4 shot will be a full swing. Easier to have a positive swing thought of 3/4 swing, than a negative one of don't over swing.

Did mention over swing years back, as his position with a shorter swing at the top of back swing is not bad. Trying to help but perhaps not appreciated ?

Does amaze mme that so many different coaches have not picked up on over swing, and the standing up as he hits the ball. I had lessons with Carl Mason's dad, Roy years ago, and he hovered a club over my head, and smacked me with it if I came up too soon on a shot.

I think to be fair to some of the previous pros that have coached Martin, they may after a rather short period time believed that his overswing was engrained in so much that attempting to change that was too unsettling to other positives he has, and as such they tried to get the best out of his bad habits and work with improving what's more natural to him.

Not everyone can swing like a pro or achieve a text book swing, were all different in our abilities due to us not being athletes or built like one, so I'm a great believer of getting the most out of me 'warts 'n' all' as long as I strike the ball well and have a consistent shot shape.

I've managed to tame my massive overswing that I had initially for a few years, but then I've only been playing 6 years, Martin has been playing 30+ so some things either will be tough to change or impossible to change as their engrained in far too much.

I wish him luck, but after watching the video immediately on release and seeing that he simply couldn't restrict his club from a full swing, I think I'd be working on that premise right or wrong as he's clearly an 'all or nothing' swinger.

In my unqualified opinion of course 😉

 

[richart]

I would agree with some one that doesn't practice has the odd lesson, and is happy to play golf for fun. Martin is not that sort of golfer, he is determined to get to single figures, he puts in the hours, has plenty of lessons, and I am sure would be prepared to get worse intially to get better longer term.

Not sure reducing your swing length is one of the hardest faults to cure. Old age tends to do it for you.

 

[garyinderry]

Without real hard work and or intensive lessons, people will always have a certain amount of their swing DNA. If I look at videos from the last few years and even longer than there, there is certain elements that have lasted.

Things like over swinging and flying right elbows can be tamed. If you go to the range all winter with a headcover tucked under your right arm pit, by spring those things will have reduced. No doubt about it.

Outside takeaway - place a second head cover outside the ball to physically stop you going there. Again by spring that will be tamed.

Things may slip back towards your natural tendencies but its about attacking those and maintaining the changes.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

You miss my point.

Honestly homer I don’t.

I WAS trying to do what he asked but if you've ever seen how long my swing is/was even with an iron, you'll realise that for me, finding a point that was short as he asked, compared to where short felt for me, was very hard.

Really Homer, You found it too difficult to hit it with half a swing?

It felt to me as though those swings were going to shoulder height. That's part and parcel of the stuff he's given me to work on going forward

The other problem is we've never met, had a limited period of time, under a degree of pressure with everyone watching, for him to get his ideas over, me to understand them and try and make changes. There were a lot of things we talked about and touched on. It certainly wasn't a case of ignoring what I was shown. More my incompetence in managing to convert the information I was shown. Hopefully once my back is better I can hit the range, and work on the takeaway and length of swing on my own, in my own time and make the changes he wanted

Those bold bits sum it up really.

Good luck, can’t wait for part deux

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I would agree with some one that doesn't practice has the odd lesson, and is happy to play golf for fun. Martin is not that sort of golfer, he is determined to get to single figures, he puts in the hours, has plenty of lessons, and I am sure would be prepared to get worse intially to get better longer term.

Not sure reducing your swing length is one of the hardest faults to cure. Old age tends to do it for you.

Playing a 3/4 swing is something that someone who was a HC of 4 and an assistant pro ? Should be able to do with ease - you don’t get that low without being able to manufacture shots using different swing length. For someone to have that many lessons and practise that much there surely there is a level that has been found and having that many lessons and practise then to not practise 3/4 swings ? Or not even been taught it and for 30 years ! Something isn’t right

 

[Fish]

Playing a 3/4 swing is something that someone who was a HC of 4 and an assistant pro ? Should be able to do with ease - you don’t get that low without being able to manufacture shots using different swing length. For someone to have that many lessons and practise that much there surely there is a level that has been found and having that many lessons and practise then to not practise 3/4 swings ? Or not even been taught it and for 30 years ! Something isn’t right

🎣 🎣🎣

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Some interesting comments. Thanks for the generally positive and encouraging views and I appreciate it. I'd point out that where I was as a 16 year old playing every day and where I am now, with all the injuries and ailments I've had on life's journey have taken a bigger toll than I perhaps admit. No surprise someone is trying to find an angle and "something isn't right" but I'll move on from that. Even though the mind still thinks I can produce the same shots I could 35 years ago the body disagrees. There are some obvious inherent and long ingrained issues. At least I have a template to work to, and a renewed drive to make the changes, break the circle and make single figures happen

Talking of ailments, the back is still bad and I haven't been able to practice but hope to hit a small bucket on Sunday and begin the work. Slow motion, rehearsal, watching it on video and patience as I start with takeaway and more importantly reducing the length. Thanks again for your input

 

[shortgame]

Haven't watched the videos yet but will do later

However, when I had lessons years back I was given a drill to sort out an overswing and a severe OTT move...

...it was simply to get to the correct static 3/4 top position, check in mirror, then swing down & through (amazing how far you can hit the ball from here with what feels like a half swing). Repeat
then play a normal shot feeling that position

60 balls or so 3 x p/w worked a treat for me

 

[Liverbirdie]

Without real hard work and or intensive lessons, people will always have a certain amount of their swing DNA. If I look at videos from the last few years and even longer than there, there is certain elements that have lasted.

Things like over swinging and flying right elbows can be tamed. If you go to the range all winter with a headcover tucked under your right arm pit, by spring those things will have reduced. No doubt about it.

Outside takeaway - place a second head cover outside the ball to physically stop you going there. Again by spring that will be tamed.

Things may slip back towards your natural tendencies but its about attacking those and maintaining the changes.

Thats if you can bothered with all that palaver.

My path has always been "the laziest way to get as low as I can". Some/most of us cant be bothered going the range 1-2 times a week, spending a fortune on lessons, spending 30 minutes on the putting green pre-round building gates, doing things with string - sound like Blue Peter.

Just enjoy it, and it may come via a different guise.

"The lazy way to single figures" - I may write that, it would sell millions!!!!!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Thats if you can bothered with all that palaver.

My path has always been "the laziest way to get as low as I can". Some/most of us cant be bothered going the range 1-2 times a week, spending a fortune on lessons, spending 3 minutes on the putting green pre-round building gates, doing things with string - sound like Blue Peter.

Just enjoy it, and it may come via a different guise.

"The lazy way to single figures" - I may write that, it would sell millions!!!!!

You may be on to something there matey