CSS question

[Lord Tyrion]

Saturday's comp, par = 72, SSS = 71,

2 people on 37 points
4 people on 36 points
3 people on 35 points
7 people on 33 points or less

CSS was 70. How does that happen? Only 2 people beat par.

 

[robinthehood]

no diea, but i thinks its to do with the amount of persons in buffer rather than beat par.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I think it also relates to scores in each handicap category but it's something that has always baffled me too.

 

[jim8flog]

Not only do you need the individuals handicaps to determine category you also need to exclude some players (if it fits)

Q. How is the Competition Scratch Score (CSS) calculated?


A. The CSS table contained in Table A, Appendix B of the UHS is based on a statistical analysis of the known performance of golfers of different abilities (Handicap Categories) under a range of golfing conditions. Table A, Appendix B is based on the expectation of players returning nett scores within their respective Buffer Zones. In ‘normal’ playing conditions, for example, 30-57% of participating Category 1 players are expected to return nett scores within their Buffer Zone or better (SSS+1), In contrast, in the same conditions only 23-45% of Category 3 players are expected to return nett scores within their Buffer Zone or better (SSS+3), In competition situations when course conditions are more, or less, favourable than ‘normal’, these percentages will increase or decrease accordingly, resulting in movement of the SSS as expressed by the CSS.

The mechanics of the CSS calculation are:

• Establish the composition of the ‘field’ as a percentage of each Handicap Category excluding Category 5 and 6.

e.g. 10% Cat.1 50% Cat.2 40% Cat.3 + Cat.4

• • Establish the percentage of the ‘field’ (Cat.1 + Cat.2 + (Cat.3 + Cat.4) with a nett score within their respective Buffer Zones, or better e.g. 20%
• • Refer to Table A in Appendix B, and if appropriate Table B.
• • Using this example, the CSS would be the SSS +1.

 

[TheDiablo]

Saturday's comp, par = 72, SSS = 71,

2 people on 37 points
4 people on 36 points
3 people on 35 points
7 people on 33 points or less

CSS was 70. How does that happen? Only 2 people beat par.

Par is irrelevant.

More than half the field matched or beat SSS, which is a very high proportion

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It always seems odd when people say par is irrelevant, it never feels blinkin irrelevant 😡.

Thanks for the replies. I'm a bit grumpy as I had 33 points and went up 0.1 😥.

 

[Rlburnside]

I think CSS is to be scrapped next year and about time to, I had 2 good scores recently and thought I would get a cut but CSS went up on the day.

I think it’s strange that your h/c is affected by how well/bad others play.

 

[Rlburnside]

I meant CSS went down on the day.

 

[rulefan]

I think CSS is to be scrapped next year and about time to,/QUOTE]

It will be replaced by a Playing Conditions Calculation (PCC), which does much the same thing (ie adjusts for course conditions, weather conditions and course set-up) but for all scores on the day. CSS only applies to a specific competition.

 

[jim8flog]

I think it’s strange that your h/c is affected by how well/bad others play.

It is meant to reflect the conditions on the day rather how others play. The whole field will be affected by the weather.

E.G. where I play the windless days are noticeable rather than the windy days, so it stops players from getting a bigger cut on a totally calm dry day than they would for the same score on a wet and very windy day windy.

 

[jim8flog]

It always seems odd when people say par is irrelevant, it never feels blinkin irrelevant 😡.

.

One of the hardest things is getting players to understand that par is irrelevant as far as handicaps are concerned.

I have tried very hard , without success, to get the organiser of a swindle I play in to understand that. In that swindle you get a handicap cut of 2 shots because you played to your handicap.

 

[duncan mackie]

One of the hardest things is getting players to understand that par is irrelevant as far as handicaps are concerned.

I have tried very hard , without success, to get the organiser of a swindle I play in to understand that. In that swindle you get a handicap cut of 2 shots because you played to your handicap.

Then again the statement that par is irrelevant in such discussions probably doesnt help!

In this example if par was 68 the CSS may have moved 1 shot the other way on the stableford scores given....even in a medal round, whilst the winner will be assessed on their net score overall the handicapping calculations will be based on stableford points - which are calculated against individual hole par!

Par is not irrelevant to handicapping at all.

Par is simply not the measure against which a player should generally assess their performance against a course ie If you relate your performance as shooting '6 over' it should relate to score - course rating, not par, to have any relevance at all.

 

[williamalex1]

Will the VCSS also cease next year ?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The difficulty in dismissing par as the measure is that it is constantly referred to in the professional game. 'Brooks is 4 under par for his round' etc. Par is marked on your card, par is how your stableford points are marked each hole. Par dominates. It is very hard for us golfers then not to refer to par, not to obsess about par.

I understand the points made here but it is also not surprising that your average golfer, I'm in that group, struggles to ignore par as a concept.

 

[duncan mackie]

Will the VCSS also cease next year ?

See post #9; and remember it's impact on any individuals handicap will be further diluted by the revised handicap process as well.

 

[williamalex1]

So there wont be a separate PCC for away players at open events ?

 

[duncan mackie]

So there wont be a separate PCC for away players at open events ?

I don't have details but the move from comp to all players on the day, plus the dilution (or even disregarding of the score completely) effect of any one score, and the whole premis of the WHS itself (especially the introduction of the SR for the handicap contingent) would be consistent with binning that bit.

 

[badgergm]

We get some weird ones at ours. Par 71, SSS 70 (which I think went down from 71 a few years ago - could be 71 in my view).

Over 100 entries on Sat - course in good condition, good greens, no wind to speak of, though was v hot, in the afternoon at least. There was one 68, with next lowest being 71 (of which there were 8). CSS was 71. I know it just goes off % buffer but does seem odd that only 1 person gets a cut. (And yes I was on 71, and need a cut to avoid hcap increase....).

 

[duncan mackie]

We get some weird ones at ours. Par 71, SSS 70 (which I think went down from 71 a few years ago - could be 71 in my view).

Over 100 entries on Sat - course in good condition, good greens, no wind to speak of, though was v hot, in the afternoon at least. There was one 68, with next lowest being 71 (of which there were 8). CSS was 71. I know it just goes off % buffer but does seem odd that only 1 person gets a cut. (And yes I was on 71, and need a cut to avoid hcap increase....).

However, in the context of the thread, if there hadn't been a CSS calculation (ie SSS ruled!) only one person would have got cut.

Arithmetically I take it that there were around 10 - 20 people who didn't get an increase (which is sometimes an easier way to look at it) which, being slightly less than you would expect, led to an increase in CSS. That there were 8 on 71 impacts the output rather than the input here - if they had all been on 70 the same arithmetic would still come into play and 9 people would have been cut.

 

[rulefan]

So there wont be a separate PCC for away players at open events ?

It will apply to all players playing qualifying rounds on that course on that day.