CSS does it lead to false handicaps?

[louise_a]

Firstly, I am quite happy when CSS goes up as if I have a good round it gives me more of a cut

The thing is at my club we do have a lot of members who are getting holder and have played better in the past than they are liable to do in the future, for example one lady used to be as low as 5 or 6 but is now up to 13. This trends to mean that in most competitions CSS goes up. I have benefited from this quite a bit this year.
Last month I had a net 69, 3 under SSS, but as only a couple of others were in their buffer CSS went up to 74 and I so I benefited from an extra 0.4 cut.
Yester I had a net 71 but no one else buffered so CSS was 75 and I got an extra 0.6 cut.

In fact more often than not CSS has got up and has quite often been Reductions only, I have probably been saved an increase four or five times. So all in all thanks to CSS my handicap is probable 1.5 lower than it would be if handicaps were purely based on SSS.

As I said at the beginning, I am quite happy with this as I want to get as low as I can but although I am now playing off 10, I am probably ought to be off 12.

 

[PuttPuttSteve]

That's an interesting one. When the CSS goes up and down at my club, it's generally the result of playing conditions, as we have a good spread of male members with regard to HC and age profile. I suspect that many clubs, including ours, will experience increasing CSS levels as the age profile changes - i.e. average age increases. We definitely need to find a way to attract younger members into the club, and into the game generally. I'm probably part of the problem, having hit 59! :angry:

 

[stevek1969]

At Carnoustie for example the css is on average 75-78 every week, you see a lot of on paper top class players with really low handicaps who have non nothing to speak of in top level golf, but the course they play week in week out is so tough

 

[Foxholer]

This is a fairly classic 'distortion' that happens quite often with Ladies - mainly because of low number of truly competitive players in the comp! I've seen it happen at a couple of other clubs - where the number of Ladies in the comp just exceeds the minimum for CSS, but only 1 or 2 are truly 'competitive'!

At your club, however, it will be quite a true (and even might favour you!) reflection of the relative levels. The problem - for you - is that if you play (in an away comp) with others that have had large Ladies sections, then an equally competent golfer will likely have a shot or 2 higher handicap!

It doesn't happen for Men because of the much larger fields - so the CSS adjustment is much more reflective of the conditions on the day, rather than the small field sample.

One way to 'counteract' it is to play your limit of Supplementary scores. This is always calculated against SSS! And, of course, hope to play better than your handicap. But if it results in a +0.1, then don't be down-hearted!

 

[AmandaJR]

Agree with Foxholer. We've never had a Reductions Only at our club as we have a good level of competitive golfer. Quite often the CSS comes down one in fact. Where I used to play though has them often and it's a vicious circle as the handicaps are too low but never go up and hence no one plays in their buffer and on we go. Sometimes the Annual Review will help but not quickly or often enough.

So Supplementary Cards will be a truer reflection - on our course that can help as it's 72 whereas the CSS can be 71.

 

[duncan mackie]

Agree with Foxholer. We've never had a Reductions Only at our club as we have a good level of competitive golfer. Quite often the CSS comes down one in fact. Where I used to play though has them often and it's a vicious circle as the handicaps are too low but never go up and hence no one plays in their buffer and on we go. Sometimes the Annual Review will help but not quickly or often enough.

So Supplementary Cards will be a truer reflection - on our course that can help as it's 72 whereas the CSS can be 71.

The AR can help significantly - however it is extremely clear that many ladies sections have a huge problem making the necessary adjustments!

The system will be changing slightly from next year to flag mid year year adjustments as well - but again they will need implementing.

Ladies seem more protective of their handicap than men; the latter being more concerned about being able to play to theirs - all very generally of course

 

[rosecott]

The AR can help significantly - however it is extremely clear that many ladies sections have a huge problem making the necessary adjustments!

The system will be changing slightly from next year to flag mid year year adjustments as well - but again they will need implementing.

Ladies seem more protective of their handicap than men; the latter being more concerned about being able to play to theirs - all very generally of course

I agree with Duncan that Annual Review should solve the kind of issues that Louise has mentioned. One of the possible stalling points is an attitude I have experienced with Ladies AR. When faced with a recommendation for increase one of the first responses is "Do think we should ask her if she wants to go up?". That's not how it works. If there is a recommendation, the Handicap Committee should discuss it and implement it unless there are good reasons not to implement.

 

[Foxholer]

While I agree that the AR - and the new mid-season 'multiple +0.1 result' will help, I don't believe it will truly show the effect on small (but just more than the minimum for CSS) Ladies fields that can get distorted as I posted above. I too observed the reluctance that Rosecott mentions also - plus a few other 'law unto themselves' issues in Ladies sections!!

@Louise..Some questions that would demonstrate whether there really is a problem.....Could take a little research though.
In the last 10-12 comps (or this year if less than that many)......
How many competitors in Cat 1 to 4 (ignore 5) has there been in the last 10 comps?
What has been the CSS - was it calculated?
What has been your Gross and Nett score been in each of those comps?
How many scores were Buffer or less - both before CSS was calculated and after it was?

Until those stats are supplied and analysed, it's really only speculation about your handicap being 'too low'!

Something else that might also help....

In the last 10 AWAY comps (or this year if fewer than 10) what has been your Gross and Nett score? And what was the effect (Reduction; Buffer; +0.1)? If you are shooting similar scores in Away comps to Home ones, but the effect is different, then it's the skew I have observed!

 

[AmandaJR]

"Law Unto Themselves" - sums our Ladies Section up very neatly...I'm currently trying to pretend I'm not part of it...not easy!!

 

[FairwayDodger]

I think it's the small fields in many ladies comps that cause issues. One of my clubs I hardly every get +0.1 because more often than not if I don't buffer nobody else does either (I can be the only one playing sometimes so no chance of going up, most I've ever seen play was 4).

At the other I've seen CSS go down in truly appalling conditions and up in perfect conditions more by coincidence of a number of players having a good/bad day. It's quite interesting to compare the women's CSS with the men's if the comp is the same day.

 

[louise_a]

OK Foxholer here are the stats.

date CSS no of players my net score/pts effect exact h/cap after buffer or better
27/05/15 75 16 86 0.1 11.5 1
04/06/15 75 9 28 0 11.5 0 reductions only
11/06/15 74 19 78 0 11.5 2 4shot stableford adjustment
21/06/15 75 15 84 0 11.5 0 reductions only
25/06/15 74 23 69 -1 10.5 3
02/07/15 73 13 34 0 10.5 3
09/07/15 75 23 81 0 10.5 1 reductions only
16/07/15 72 13 24 0.1 10.6 3
18/07/15 72 3 86 0.1 10.7 1
18/07/15 73 9 82 0.1 10.8 2
26/07/15 72 8 73 0 10.9 3
30/07/15 75 18 71 -0.8 10.1 1 reductions only


I have also played in 4 away comps, 3 net scores were over 80 and all gave a 0.1 increase, the other I buffered.

 

[louise_a]

oops it has removed all the blanks!

 

[AmandaJR]

Doesn't it somewhat take the pressure off if there's a chance that, unless you play well, then it will be reductions only?

 

[louise_a]

Reductions only are nice Amanda as it means no 0.1s and also a bigger cut if I play well, but that is part of my original post.

If you are not getting an increase when you deserve one and get a bigger cut when you play well, does it give you a false handicap when really it just means that very few people are playing to their own handicaps. Should CSS be scrapped and SSS used all the time.