Could the new WHS combat bandits

[clubchamp98]

having just heard my dads new number and adding 5 to it

theres dangerous and theres dangerous lol

He will be one of thousands though.

 

[fundy]

He will be one of thousands though.

if theres thousands then the system has a massive flaw imho

hes clearly gone up on the basis of not having submitted many cards the last year or two, but as someone who plays round a tough course 3 or 4 times a week, his new number is utterly laughable

 

[clubchamp98]

if theres thousands then the system has a massive flaw imho

hes clearly gone up on the basis of not having submitted many cards the last year or two, but as someone who plays round a tough course 3 or 4 times a week, his new number is utterly laughable

In theory.
If your q scores are 15/16/17/18/19/20.
If you put a card in every day and got rid off them with high scores.
You could get 5 shots back in a week.

 

[rulefan]

Yes that makes sense.
Does that go from your Congu cap.
But we have a few players that have gone from 19.5 to 34 was the biggest.
He only had four cards in but that’s a big jump.

That looks like a data problem in the WHS transition.

 

[BubbaP]

Personally (from my own experience) I do not see that. If you have 20 in it still takes along time to go up by a noticeable amount.

This year 15 of my scores have been really poor but my index has only increased by 1.4 shots.

Isn't it just maths though.
20 x 0.1s is two shots
20 times big scores, best 8 averaged could be a big number - to be capped if that process works fine.

 

[IanM]

Everyone I’ve spoken to is worried.
Nothing has convinced me they are wrong

 

[clubchamp98]

That looks like a data problem in the WHS transition.

I hope so but there are a lot .
That should have been dealt with by now.
One lady member has gone. 34 to 60.
How do you get 60?
Is it 54 off the whites and extra 6 shots on the slope?

 

[rulefan]

I hope so but there are a lot .
That should have been dealt with by now.
One lady member has gone. 34 to 60.
How do you get 60?
Is it 54 off the whites and extra 6 shots on the slope?

54 is the highest Index. I assume you mean 60 is her Course Handicap, which would certainly be possible off the ladies tees with a slope of 125 or more

Possibly too few scores recognised by the system

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In theory.
If your q scores are 15/16/17/18/19/20.
If you put a card in every day and got rid off them with high scores.
You could get 5 shots back in a week.

You could, but it would be pretty apparent and would be noted...and if you then went and blitzed a comp then you’d have to take everything that came your way...and perhaps also accept that some might choose to disassociate themselves with you. And those who played with you for your high scores would be asked uncomfortable questions as they too would find themselves having to lie for you.

Of course if you’d just truly hit a really bad patch or if such as medical reasons had played a part then your playing buddies could confirm what had happened.

I actually think its going to be harder to manipulate your handicap playing your normal frequency and to your usual general standard. Much easier IMO to just get one or more 0.1s back that pop you up a shot or drop a shot or two towards the end of a round to ensure you don’t come down.

 

[jim8flog]

In theory.
If your q scores are 15/16/17/18/19/20.
If you put a card in every day and got rid off them with high scores.
You could get 5 shots back in a week.

In theory you could get 5 shots in a short time but you would not go up anymore within a year and shoot a good score in a comp and you come back down again a little bit and so on.

During the past few months we have had players putting in SSs nearly every time they play but that was more about ensuring they had 20 scores in the system as we were trying to get players to do.

Mind you in other countries you are required to submit your scores every time you play.

 

[Sats]

Well the old system was definitely flawed and this new one will be as well. Bandits are cheats, they might as well go around giving themselves 18-36 mulligans a round. My frustrations come when there is money involved.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I have taken little interest in this whs thing so far because I haven't been unduly concerned about my handicap and competitions, and I haven't been playing any competitions since Covid.
I am something of an old dinosaur?
My first season at my club was just Pre Covid , I was occasionally playing in some weekly seniors competitions, mostly the fun ones like scramble, etc. It was a way of getting to know folks at the club, and guaranteeing room to get a full round in.
My main objective was to play the course socially or on my own just to better my playing ability. I wasn't too bothered about winning etc.
When Covid arrived ,I decided against playing competitions when they resumed. I just played socially once a week or so with a mate, and I used the range a lot.
My handicap of 17 was based on my propensity for blowing up on one or two holes.If I played my best, I could play several holes in regulation, if I concentrated on putting I could get par etc. I knew if I had a very good day I could beat my handicap, and play to around 12 or 13.
When whs happened, my mate, who is into all that, tells me that my HI is
21.something, and , apparently, if I had been playing in a recent competition, my handicap would have been 23?
This is not what I want. I am concerned that if I am able to resume competitions after Covid, that playing well at such a handicap could be embarrassing.
Is there a way to change this without playing a competition off 21 or 23?
Could I play rounds socially with a mate and submit cards that whs would use
to adjust my handicap?
Advice appreciated, thanks

 

[clubchamp98]

In theory you could get 5 shots in a short time but you would not go up anymore within a year and shoot a good score in a comp and you come back down again a little bit and so on.

During the past few months we have had players putting in SSs nearly every time they play but that was more about ensuring they had 20 scores in the system as we were trying to get players to do.

Mind you in other countries you are required to submit your scores every time you play.

Think this is a bit of a con .
It’s supposed to be a world system but each country has different requirements.
So it’s not the same everywhere.

 

[clubchamp98]

I have taken little interest in this whs thing so far because I haven't been unduly concerned about my handicap and competitions, and I haven't been playing any competitions since Covid.
I am something of an old dinosaur?
My first season at my club was just Pre Covid , I was occasionally playing in some weekly seniors competitions, mostly the fun ones like scramble, etc. It was a way of getting to know folks at the club, and guaranteeing room to get a full round in.
My main objective was to play the course socially or on my own just to better my playing ability. I wasn't too bothered about winning etc.
When Covid arrived ,I decided against playing competitions when they resumed. I just played socially once a week or so with a mate, and I used the range a lot.
My handicap of 17 was based on my propensity for blowing up on one or two holes.If I played my best, I could play several holes in regulation, if I concentrated on putting I could get par etc. I knew if I had a very good day I could beat my handicap, and play to around 12 or 13.
When whs happened, my mate, who is into all that, tells me that my HI is
21.something, and , apparently, if I had been playing in a recent competition, my handicap would have been 23?
This is not what I want. I am concerned that if I am able to resume competitions after Covid, that playing well at such a handicap could be embarrassing.
Is there a way to change this without playing a competition off 21 or 23?
Could I play rounds socially with a mate and submit cards that whs would use
to adjust my handicap?
Advice appreciated, thanks

Yes just inform your pro before you tee off that your putting a card in.
There is no limit as far as I can see.

 

[Ethan]

The main difference between CONGU and WHS are important for banditry. CONGU placed a brake on the rate the handicap could rise, only 0.1 at a time, but WHS does not. If one of your better scores expires, and is replaced by a much worse score, a sharp jump will occur.

My best score is a 78 and the range is between 78 and 86. My next best score is a 87, so the day the 78 expires, if I don't put in a better score it is replaced by 87, which when averaged into the index and slope-corrected will increase it by 0.9 in one fell swoop.

 

[clubchamp98]

The main difference between CONGU and WHS are important for banditry. CONGU placed a brake on the rate the handicap could rise, only 0.1 at a time, but WHS does not. If one of your better scores expires, and is replaced by a much worse score, a sharp jump will occur.

My best score is a 78 and the range is between 78 and 86. My next best score is a 87, so the day the 78 expires, if I don't put in a better score it is replaced by 87, which when averaged into the index and slope-corrected will increase it by 0.9 in one fell swoop.

Yes that’s a big gain in one go.
I can see people doing this if they have a knockout coming up.

 

[Yorkshire Hacker]

Think this is a bit of a con .
It’s supposed to be a world system but each country has different requirements.
So it’s not the same everywhere.

Exactly! All this baloney about bringing us into line with the rest of the world, and making it easier for us to play abroad is a nonsense.
I have played overseas every year since 2004, and never once has handicap been an issue.
Now I appear to need the mathematical brain of an Einstein, and in addition, I have heard so many stories (on this forum) where the players' handicap has changed significantly.
Bring back Congu, and its .1 and buffer zones etc etc!

 

[Tashyboy]

You could, but it would be pretty apparent and would be noted...and if you then went and blitzed a comp then you’d have to take everything that came your way...and perhaps also accept that some might choose to disassociate themselves with you. And those who played with you for your high scores would be asked uncomfortable questions as they too would find themselves having to lie for you.

Of course if you’d just truly hit a really bad patch or if such as medical reasons had played a part then your playing buddies could confirm what had happened.

I actually think its going to be harder to manipulate your handicap playing your normal frequency and to your usual general standard. Much easier IMO to just get one or more 0.1s back that pop you up a shot or drop a shot or two towards the end of a round to ensure you don’t come down.

I get what your saying but what your saying happens.

Golf is peaks and troughs. Don’t know how many times me and PPs have been in a trough whilst playing an 18 hole comp and just thought “ sod it”. There’s been days when I have lost the will to live whilst playing. Them troughs have lasted a few weeks. Not only that. like in stableford, if you cannot score pick up. Are them days now gone. In the olden days 10 x 0.1s gave you a shot return, plus another 1 shot after 10 consecutive 0.1s. Ave a feeling not only could bandits benefit from this, but scores are gonna fluctuate massively and it will even change the way we play the game. Interesting times ahead me finks.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Been thinking through how I might work out what I have to do in the round I am about to play if I have a 'major' comp coming up next round, and I want my HI to go up so my CH goes up for the comp. And to be honest - even if I can work out how to work it out...I just can't see myself being bothered - and surely that - if nothing else - is a suitable deterrent/obstacle for handicap manipulation.

 

[rosecott]

Yes just inform your pro before you tee off that your putting a card in.
There is no limit as far as I can see.

I don't think a casual word with the pro cuts it. There has to be a formal system for pre-registering in the same way as there had to be for Supplementaries. The system is necessary so that a card is submitted and accounted for if the round has been pre-registered. The scorecard must also be verified by "a person acceptable to the committee" - in most cases meaning another member with a handicap.