Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
you would love me then, I was wagging it from skool the day they discussed vanity ?
Could the new WHS combat bandits
- Thread starter Tashyboy
- Start date
you would love me then, I was wagging it from skool the day they discussed vanity ?
sweaty sock
Hacker
Before it was implemented I spoke to a group of US golfers about this. Had some worrying findings...
Firstly a caveats, the behaviours and social norms are different in the US.
Most of yhe insight was how golf was played, and its effect on handicap maintenance. In the UK, I think its very common for players to go the season playing 100% competition golf sticking rigidly to the rules. The weekend and mid week comps could see someone going the whole season without a bounce game. In the US singles, handicap competitions are comparitively rare, with maybe one a month being seen as a lot! The reason for this is a lack of interest due to handicap variance (bandits etc).
The reason for the handicap variance (aside from ego and plain banditry) can come down to how golf is played.
Its regular (as it is in the uk) for groups of players to run their own sweep, group competition etc. And its very usual all the resulting rounds in these sweeps are entered as the equivalent of pre-registered rounds. All seems fine. Until you find out that the rules imposed on these impromptu sweeps can vary widely, and rarely follow strict rules of golf. So gimmies, mulligans, dropping in the fairway after lost balls can all be allowed to increase enjoyment, but obviously change the resulting scores and makes handicaps rather specific to the group. A bit like a society handicap in the UK!!
The above will probably seem like a mockery to the die hard UK types. But in the US the handicap itself is seen as a less important thing than just having a game. Probably because of the inherent variance between groups / sweeps / types of play... I'd propose that US singles handicap competitions are less popular as the handicaps of players are less comparable!! Similarly the very popular "member/guest" better ball, is regularly used for handicap purposes and repeat winners with poposterous scores are common place.
Look at the pebble beach pro am scores. Amatuers regularly have multiple rounds in the 40 points range, and also consider the regular scratch golfers who cant break a hundred on holiday visits to the uk....
Firstly a caveats, the behaviours and social norms are different in the US.
Most of yhe insight was how golf was played, and its effect on handicap maintenance. In the UK, I think its very common for players to go the season playing 100% competition golf sticking rigidly to the rules. The weekend and mid week comps could see someone going the whole season without a bounce game. In the US singles, handicap competitions are comparitively rare, with maybe one a month being seen as a lot! The reason for this is a lack of interest due to handicap variance (bandits etc).
The reason for the handicap variance (aside from ego and plain banditry) can come down to how golf is played.
Its regular (as it is in the uk) for groups of players to run their own sweep, group competition etc. And its very usual all the resulting rounds in these sweeps are entered as the equivalent of pre-registered rounds. All seems fine. Until you find out that the rules imposed on these impromptu sweeps can vary widely, and rarely follow strict rules of golf. So gimmies, mulligans, dropping in the fairway after lost balls can all be allowed to increase enjoyment, but obviously change the resulting scores and makes handicaps rather specific to the group. A bit like a society handicap in the UK!!
The above will probably seem like a mockery to the die hard UK types. But in the US the handicap itself is seen as a less important thing than just having a game. Probably because of the inherent variance between groups / sweeps / types of play... I'd propose that US singles handicap competitions are less popular as the handicaps of players are less comparable!! Similarly the very popular "member/guest" better ball, is regularly used for handicap purposes and repeat winners with poposterous scores are common place.
Look at the pebble beach pro am scores. Amatuers regularly have multiple rounds in the 40 points range, and also consider the regular scratch golfers who cant break a hundred on holiday visits to the uk....
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
When I am doing the cards if I spot a scorecard entry with all NRs I cancel the inputted scores and enter the scores as recorded on the card. I had one recently with all NRs 0.1 increase with all scores input buffer zone (mind you I knew the person and would double check what he does for things like this).
Our office handicap sec was always moaning at the guys who did this (particularly the low handicappers) as it often meant they would not get a 0.1 if all scores were entered.
rosecott
Money List Winner
It's hardly an accusation of cheating if you refuse to accept a series of N/Rs on pre-registered scorecards - and it's perfectly permissible for the committee to do so.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
The Scottish app thread has mentioned a "general play" button/option for registering but don't think all the details are clear yet. Something similar may be added to the EG app. No idea about darkest Wales though ??
Old Skier
Tour Winner
There is already the ability for clubs on V1 using HDID to enter casual cards.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
I'm not sure what thread you are referring to but your assumption that scores will be logged as Nett Double Bogey is not necessarily correct.
If a player does not start any holes then for handicapping purposes the first hole that you NR without playing, will be scored as a nett par plus one stroke, and all subsequent holes not played will be counted as a nett par.
The only time a hole is counted as a nett double bogey is when you start the hole but do not finish it.
IanM
Journeyman Pro
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We used Master Scoreboard pre whs..and still do for booking in and entering scores.
No facility for general play cards as yet..or if there is , I've not seen it. Currently you can on entering scores for events created on the system
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
Yep also on masterscoreboard currently, and we'll need to see how this pans out but what is to stop you submitting a 'general play' score at an away course. Hence why the unions may be providing facilities (to register) centrally.
I know HDID are offering it (post above) but wasn't really what the post was about.
woofers
Medal Winner
Yep.
All the information on how the handicaps are to be administered can be found here:
https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/England-Golf-Rules-of-Handicapping.pdf
Rule 7 is pertinent to some of the discussion here.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Just as it’s perfectly permissible to put in an NR.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Totally agree.
I have played with lots of yanks and have only ever met one who had an official handicap.
When you ask them their cap they laugh and say “ About 12 to 16 “.
woofers
Medal Winner
Of course it is, if it’s for a valid reason.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Yes decent handicap golfer that puts in some bad cards because he has the yips/ sh#£&= will he have to explain himself every round.?
brickie
Medal Winner
I think that once up and running WHS will lead to demise of open pairs competitions. Low to mid handicappers will in my opinion, soon get fed up of trying to complete with "players" who receive 2 shots on the majority of holes.
There may be a case for 2 or more divisions in such competition but this of course would necessitate the reduction of the value of prizes which in itself may discourage the pot hunters.
On another note, most of the "board competitions" at my club have a maximum handicap for entry purposes. I can see this being a more common solution as handicaps creep up towards the 54 mark for some players.
I know that handicaps are there to level the playing field but from experience, it is extremely difficult to complete with someone who gets a ton of shots, especially in Stableford competitions.
There may be a case for 2 or more divisions in such competition but this of course would necessitate the reduction of the value of prizes which in itself may discourage the pot hunters.
On another note, most of the "board competitions" at my club have a maximum handicap for entry purposes. I can see this being a more common solution as handicaps creep up towards the 54 mark for some players.
I know that handicaps are there to level the playing field but from experience, it is extremely difficult to complete with someone who gets a ton of shots, especially in Stableford competitions.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Agree it happened when 90% was introduced scores went up in opens.
This will only make it worse imo.
We go for a day out nothing more to opens now.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
What’s to stop opens having divisions.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
What's to stop Opens from having non value prizes, l.e. Cups and shields?
Pros play for money and prizes of intrinsic value.
Why don't amateurs play only for the glory?
I know it's "business ", but maybe enough would play for the value -day -out, if the prize hunters stayed at home.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
I
I go just to play other courses at a good price
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
No system will stop a “bandit”
But then all the people that get accused of being bandits 99% of them aren’t actually bandits. There always seems to be a bit of mistrust towards fellow golfers from some - mainly happens when they have a big win etc and it’s normally from people who are jealous etc
There will always be the very small percentage of “pot hunters” who manipulate handicap to be competitive in Opens etc but it doesn’t take long before they get found out - we all know the short game wizard who ended up being banned
Opens will still happen and they will still mainly be won by the low to mid HC guys
But then all the people that get accused of being bandits 99% of them aren’t actually bandits. There always seems to be a bit of mistrust towards fellow golfers from some - mainly happens when they have a big win etc and it’s normally from people who are jealous etc
There will always be the very small percentage of “pot hunters” who manipulate handicap to be competitive in Opens etc but it doesn’t take long before they get found out - we all know the short game wizard who ended up being banned
Opens will still happen and they will still mainly be won by the low to mid HC guys
