Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Swinglowandslow]

I never trust politicians, regardless of party. Lying is part of their job. Not often maliciously, but to try and get support from a population that is massively diverse in millions of topics (sign up to twitter to get a good picture). However, for the first time in my life, this appears to be an issue where there is only one answer, beat this bloomin virus. Therefore, it is the least likely time for political games and lies. And, I believe one of the most trustworthy professions are scientists. People who are constantly caveating and questioning their own logic, while analysing alternative views of any other scientists to determine their merit.

So, I trust our scientists. And, I will make the assumption that politicians are listening to them (although the fact that MPs told us to not trust the experts during Brexit has backfired somewhat).

I'm not saying that the scientists get every single decision spot on, when we have the benefit of hindsight to judge the impact of these decisions. But, I do trust that they are making their absolute best judgements they can in the moment. And, who am I, or the press, to adamantly say they are wrong? After all, the experts we see frequently are hugely intelligent, highly qualified and experienced individuals. They represent a diverse number of disciplines specific to dealing with a pandemic, and they will have teams of hundreds of scientists working with them. I don't mind asking questions, or asking why this is being done or that isn't. But, to then blatantly say they are wrong, is in my mind meaningless because I have no experience or qualifications to defend that argument.

My biggest frustration, without a shadow of a doubt, is the media. For my sins, I watched GMB and Piers Morgan is probably the worst of the lot. But, tabloid media, and even the mainstream media are horrific in the UK. They don't give us news. They give us their opinion. Many spend their entire effort trying to catch out politicians, and thrive when there is a slip of the tongue, something not as clear as it could be, and best of all, they catch an individual out who hasn't actually followed the guidance themselves. It is the media that are primarily responsible for the mixed messages. Their focus should be getting clarification on certain issues, and then relaying that to the public. The media know that negative, sensational headlines sell. Many tabloids have their own agenda anyway, whether the are left or right leaning. Although, given the inter-party division after Brexit, even right leaning media is not going to fully support the government I guess.

Boris (and I'm not a fan of his politically) had 10-15 minutes last night to give out a message. He didn't have hours to go through every fine detail, and if he did, most human beings would have got bored and switched off the TV. So, he spent the 15 minutes basically telling us that there is no real change to lockdown, except he is offering more encouragement for people to go to work, and encouraging more exercise. Basically, they are very slightly trying to push people back to work, but hoping the public can use their common sense (in the main) to continue the way of lives we have been living for the last 7 weeks. Yet, immediately, the media pounce on the fact that every minute detail has not been expressed, as if the entire population need to be told EXACTLY what they can and cannot do (and sadly, much of the public that read these stories than agree, and demand to be told exactly what they can do, as if they are puppets). I mean, we all play golf. During his speech, he did mention sport and solo play. But, of course, we don't know the finer detail specific to golf, and he was never going to go into that detail. However, England Golf will be in more detail discussions, and give us the advice shortly. If you have not been working, then if you are employed you don't immediately go back to work today. You get guidance from your employer, and your employer will have the responsibility to find out the details in the next day or so. If self employed, the speech will have sparked interest that you may be in a position to start working again, but your next step will then be to find out how to proceed based on your actual profession.

I appreciate people are getting frustrated. I am. On one hand, I'm nervous about catching Covid, and even more nervous about a vulnerable family member getting it. On the other, I'm nervous about the economy, and the long term health impacts that could be caused by a complete collapse of the economy and massive unemployment. Some people are on one end of the scale or the other. Some are wholly focused on the catching Covid, and would happily be in lockdown until it has gone, which could be years. Others are more concerned about their jobs, and the ability to support their families and pay their mortgage over the long term. Very generally speaking, would a retired vulnerable pensioner have the same opinion as a 20/30 something year old chef with 3 kids and a partner? This is the difficulty of a government who is meant to be looking out for us all, yet and measures would not necessarily be perfect for every single individual and their own circumstances.

I just wish we could get behind the government and the scientists for this, because it will be them that get us through it. It won't be me, it won't be Piers Morgan or Gary Linekar. Keep asking questions, indeed, but don't automatically decide the answer you get is wrong before you have even heard and digested it.

It hasn't been better put, and I doubt it will be.
An excellently reasoned post.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Starbucks to open 130 outlets from Thursday. Confused...from the BBC website

What about pubs, cafes, restaurants, theatres and cinemas?

• Mr Johnson says the government "hopes" to reopen "at least some of the hospitality industry and other public places" in England but this will happen later than for shops and schools - by July at the earliest

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Depends what you were expecting. Personally I thought if you like popularist leaders who try to invoke great orators of the past but don't actually say much then he did fine. if you were looking for a bit more detail then possibly not

It wasn't his job to give detail at that time. And he said that would come in the statement to H oC today,!

 

[SocketRocket]

Looked pretty accurate to me to.. I only added the edit because couldn't be bothered with the usual know bettter brigade wetting themselves to pull holes in it, so thought I'd acknowledge its not a professional opinion i hold ?

Yes, that can be manipulated to suit. A crowded tube is a little more difficult though.

 

[SocketRocket]

It wasn't his job to give detail at that time. And he said that would come in the statement to H oC today,!

He shouldnt have given any then

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Nicola spot on there.
She has no problem with England or the other Home Nations doing things differently provided that they clearly state that it is for their country/area/ region only.

I am quite surprised why England have not already lifted areas of lockdown for their South West region.

 

[drdel]

Starbucks to open 130 outlets from Thursday. Confused...from the BBC website

What about pubs, cafes, restaurants, theatres and cinemas?

• Mr Johnson says the government "hopes" to reopen "at least some of the hospitality industry and other public places" in England but this will happen later than for shops and schools - by July at the earliest

Conditional if 'R' continues to fall. What he said was when it is safe and where people are allowed outside and can SD.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Coming on ? - Your decision that Boris had made a confused message was made within minutes or hours of the broadcast. That is evidenced by you quoting your wife's reaction to the broadcast.
So if the "General" had said tomorrow in that broadcast, whose fault is it if someone listening thought it was Wednesday.
In any event, my analogy was a bit different from yours. I was trying to illustrate the difference between strategy , tactics and detailed instruction .
I was defending accusations that Boris was confusing, not that he had given a clear message that was passed on wrongly( which is what your tomorrow and Wednesday analogy has given )
And the defence is that it is not his job to give minutiae of his strategy, he said clearly that would come later.
If people are demanding detail from him in that speech, like they are, I am saying that is unreasonable, and in some cases also disingenuous.

BTW , I have sent you a conversation.

Johnson said in respect of going back to work 'from tomorrow'. Raab today said 'from Wednesday'. It appears many have taken the 'from tomorrow' to heart and just got on with it.

 

[bobmac]

Yes, that can be manipulated to suit. A crowded tube is a little more difficult though.

And when was the photograph taken?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Conditional if 'R' continues to fall. What he said was when it is safe and where people are allowed outside and can SD.

.. but is Starbucks not a cafe and so subject to 'by July at the earliest'? So what are they doing planning to open 130 outlets from Thursday?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

They haven't and many have carried on. Many were under pressure to close however and succumbed to that. Yesterday gave those wavering about whether to open or not the green light to get some staff back without getting abuse or grief from staff, social media etc.

There is a carpet shop next to our unit. Easy to maintain SD there, plenty of space, but he hasn't felt able to open because of the likely online grief he would get that could damage his business. Today he is open.

Clearly very different for schools who were told to close except for those looking after kids of key workers.

He didn’t give the Companies the go ahead though did he? He gave the employees the go ahead, surely it would of been better for him to say business owners should now look at their business and see if everything is in place to ask your employees to return etc and can you look by (insert suitable date here) to open.

 

[Slab]

.. but is Starbucks not a cafe and so subject to 'by July at the earliest'? So what are they doing planning to open 130 outlets from Thursday?

To be honest that took next to no time to validate. Just drive-throughs and the odd takeaway site

 

[Lord Tyrion]

He didn’t give the Companies the go ahead though did he? He gave the employees the go ahead, surely it would of been better for him to say business owners should now look at their business and see if everything is in place to ask your employees to return etc and can you look by (insert suitable date here) to open.

Employees do what their bosses tell them to do. No one is just going to rock up at work this morning because Boris told them to. Whether on furlough on simply working from home employees will be waiting now to hear from their bosses to see what they want them to do. Bosses will have to work out their next move based on what is best for their company.

 

[SocketRocket]

And when was the photograph taken?

The BBC news article said it was people on the tube this morning it was a video shot. Maybe they were lieing, who knows.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The world is in a situation nobody currently alive has faced in their lifetime, lots of different approaches by virtually every Government across the World.

Hindsight will no doubt be the best measure of what worked, what didn’t and hopefully what lessons will be learnt.

In my opinion our Government have got the majority of decisions right and it’s certainly been with the Country’s best interest at heart.

However, there has been a reoccurring theme (even on here) that seems to have troubled them time and time again and that has been their ability to shoot themselves in the foot over the release of information, communication at times has been an own goal:

Testing - They gave the figure.
PPE - They released the details of the Turkey shipment.
Last night - boris could of come on, praised the effort, warned us of the on-going danger and stated a document will be released tomorrow on a way forward, the “snippets” he gave has caused confusion.

I’m not having a go at tories or any party as I still firmly believe no other Party could be proved to have done any better.

Just please clamp down on the leaks or seriously think about the information you are about to give and whether it is actually needed or you’re doing it for effect.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Employees do what their bosses tell them to do. No one is just going to rock up at work this morning because Boris told them to. Whether on furlough on simply working from home employees will be waiting now to hear from their bosses to see what they want them to do. Bosses will have to work out their next move based on what is best for their company.

I agree, but that’s still not what he said, therefore, Why did he say what he did? He even advised how they should travel to work today.

 

[SocketRocket]

Employees do what their bosses tell them to do. No one is just going to rock up at work this morning because Boris told them to. Whether on furlough on simply working from home employees will be waiting now to hear from their bosses to see what they want them to do. Bosses will have to work out their next move based on what is best for their company.

People also do what the Government say and from what I was reading many people were confused by it including Kears Starmer.

 

[bobmac]

Was it a picture like this?

 

[huds1475]

I just don’t understand what’s so hard.

If you suspected you were infectious or knew you were infected what would you do? Would you be wise and ALERT enough keep away from other people. YES - I hope!

Are you ALERT to the evident risks to yourself: so if there was a chance someone else could infect you’d…

• Stay away or at least stay 2m apart and minimise the time (<10-15min) in their proximity.
• If you cannot work and earn your money from home and your work place is safe (SD and protection available) then why not go to work; keep ALERT to the risk; ideally avoiding others by staying 2m apart. Walk, cycle or drive on your own.
• Do not go out near other people unless you really NEED to rather than WANT to.
• If you MUST rather than simply wish to go abroad would you all feel safe, allowing for SD, insurance, getting home etc.
• If you run a business/organisation can you keep your employees safe (2m apart, comply with H&S and insurance risks, etc.) and can your customers stay safe, apart? Can you make enough money for it to be prudent?
• .......

But I guess sensible behaviour is sometimes in short supply and doesn't sell newspapers or the media need for hype - thankfully the idiots are also in 'relatively' short supply.

Wasting your time.

Too many people think they have to comment on everything, without having the fortitude to be accountable for their own actions.

 

[Slab]

Was it a picture like this?

View attachment 30601

Love it