Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Lord Tyrion]

I've been amazed how many professional people - business owners, head teachers etc. who have been bleating this morning "we don't know how...we haven't been told...the government hasn't given clarity". Do your job. Accept some responsibility for decisions. Listen to the detail given today and then implement some of the plans you should already have had in place for a re-opening. Head teachers usually bleat about government interference and now they want to be given chapter and verse as to how to run their school. Gave up on the news in the end as it was just more of the same and not one person said "ok, that's good...we have a plan and now will get to work preparing".

What we don't hear is all those who are doing exactly as you suggest. That is not news worthy. There are plenty of businesses who have already changed practices, plenty who have been thinking how to change and have just been waiting for the green light to proceed. The decent ones will be halfway there already, the managers, the heads etc and will just get on with it. Those who are not sure should really keep quiet and wait until this afternoons release. I would be disappointed in heads, managers etc being on the news this morning, they would not fill me with confidence.

 

[Slab]

Has anyone else seen the pictures of people crammed on the tube this morning. Very worrying.

Just saw it about 15 minutes ago, I kinda want that to be a library pic but worried that its actually from this morning

 

[DanFST]

Has anyone else seen the pictures of people crammed on the tube this morning. Very worrying.

It's been like that most days as far as I'm aware (haven't ventured out myself.)

 

[Blue in Munich]

Well Ms Sturgeon was very clear as to why the stay at home message isnt changing.

As opposed to the bumbling fool who wasted 20mins to basically say we'll tell you tomorrow. All well and good encouraging people back to work but its got to be safe for everyone involved, not the few.

We'll have to take a half on this I think ?

Stu, you can have a win on her clarity over Boris, no argument with that; my issue is with her choosing to schedule her announcement prior to the Number 10 announcement. She is the First Minister of Scotland, not the UK, so as such I believe she should schedule her comments at the same time or after the Prime Minister's, not before. That make's it a half overall

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Has anyone else seen the pictures of people crammed on the tube this morning. Very worrying.

Seen a few photos recently showing this, prior to last nights update, although all the graphs I've seen at the daily briefings seem to show tube activity way down. If these pictures are a true reflection of usage it is indeed worrying regarding spread of the virus

 

[Old Skier]

Probably BoJo's worst (public) performance!

In the eyes of some, possibly an IMO should have been tagged in.

 

[Wolf]

I've not seen the pictures from the tube today or recently so can't comment. But obviously there is things going on that are not adhering to the rules.
But saw this article elsewhere about some perspective of pictures we're seeing during lockdown. Who'd have thought changing lenses or angles would make such a difference on how we perceive what we're shown..

https://www.boredpanda.com/differen...s-wide-angle-philip-davali-olafur-steinar-ry/

Edit I should add my knowledge of photography is trash so I don't know if this is accurate representation either way but found it interesting.

 

[Old Skier]

That would mean 'insider knowledge' is involved!

Or just a knowledge and understanding how things normally work which goes along with giving opposition leaders the necessary docs. Prior to the statement.

 

[Old Skier]

Has anyone else seen the pictures of people crammed on the tube this morning. Very worrying.

If it was BBC Breakfast, it was library footage.

 

[Blue in Munich]

If it was just 1 of the 3 smaller nations rejecting No10 ;then you could have a point about mischief making but when all 3 reject it, each with separate CMOs and independent scientific advisors, then that looks based solely on health judgement. BJ didn't consult in advance with other nations, lied about that.
Health is a devolved issue, why is that hard to grasp, so each nation can do what it sees fit, Boris is the one making the changes for England, not the 3 devolved govts, they have stuck firmly to No 10s original lockdown rules for the past 7 weeks, no boat rocked there, and wish to stick with that stay home message for longer. Lives are at stake and leaders carry that heavy burden, use of the word catastrophic would not be said lightly.
It is confusing people, perhaps some clarity will come tomorrow in Commons which begs the question why not wait until Monday to do the TV message, once MPs had asked PM some questions first? Boris ignoring parliament again?

Nothing at all hard to grasp about that at all.

I don't believe I've commented on or criticised the First Minister for Scotland's arrangements; indeed in one post I've agreed that dependant on circumstances, different arrangements in different countries within the Union are sensible. What I have commented on is the fact that she is announcing her departure from the UK's standards BEFORE the UK's standard has been announced. And I have criticised all of them for failing to play nicely together like grown ups in the current situation, but not anyone's right to make different arrangements. I don't like the current half-arsed arrangements, nor can I understand the First Minister for Scotland's stance regarding unions, but it is what it is and that's my problem to get my head round.

Perhaps you can clarify what is hard to grasp about that?

 

[drdel]

I just don’t understand what’s so hard.

If you suspected you were infectious or knew you were infected what would you do? Would you be wise and ALERT enough keep away from other people. YES - I hope!

Are you ALERT to the evident risks to yourself: so if there was a chance someone else could infect you’d…

• Stay away or at least stay 2m apart and minimise the time (<10-15min) in their proximity.
• If you cannot work and earn your money from home and your work place is safe (SD and protection available) then why not go to work; keep ALERT to the risk; ideally avoiding others by staying 2m apart. Walk, cycle or drive on your own.
• Do not go out near other people unless you really NEED to rather than WANT to.
• If you MUST rather than simply wish to go abroad would you all feel safe, allowing for SD, insurance, getting home etc.
• If you run a business/organisation can you keep your employees safe (2m apart, comply with H&S and insurance risks, etc.) and can your customers stay safe, apart? Can you make enough money for it to be prudent?
• .......

But I guess sensible behaviour is sometimes in short supply and doesn't sell newspapers or the media need for hype - thankfully the idiots are also in 'relatively' short supply.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

What we don't hear is all those who are doing exactly as you suggest. That is not news worthy. There are plenty of businesses who have already changed practices, plenty who have been thinking how to change and have just been waiting for the green light to proceed. The decent ones will be halfway there already, the managers, the heads etc and will just get on with it. Those who are not sure should really keep quiet and wait until this afternoons release. I would be disappointed in heads, managers etc being on the news this morning, they would not fill me with confidence.

Why have they waited for last night, he didn’t actually change anything?
Those who couldn’t work from home and work safely have never been stopped from working.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

He was a bit "handsy".



We did our due diligence before the lockdown was announced, giving everyone time to get to relatives/where they wanted their base to be. We have our plan on reopening the office when deemed safe. It's not that hard.

Is it safe? Could some of your employees turned up this morning on the fact boris said so?

 

[Blue in Munich]

I've not seen the pictures from the tube today or recently so can't comment. But obviously there is things going on that are not adhering to the rules.
But saw this article elsewhere about some perspective of pictures we're seeing during lockdown. Who'd have thought changing lenses or angles would make such a difference on how we perceive what we're shown..

https://www.boredpanda.com/differen...s-wide-angle-philip-davali-olafur-steinar-ry/

Edit I should add my knowledge of photography is trash so I don't know if this is accurate representation either way but found it interesting.

No, I'd say that's pretty accurate.

 

[Wolf]

No, I'd say that's pretty accurate.

Looked pretty accurate to me to.. I only added the edit because couldn't be bothered with the usual know bettter brigade wetting themselves to pull holes in it, so thought I'd acknowledge its not a professional opinion i hold ?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Why have they waited for last night, he didn’t actually change anything?
Those who couldn’t work from home and work safely have never been stopped from working.

They haven't and many have carried on. Many were under pressure to close however and succumbed to that. Yesterday gave those wavering about whether to open or not the green light to get some staff back without getting abuse or grief from staff, social media etc.

There is a carpet shop next to our unit. Easy to maintain SD there, plenty of space, but he hasn't felt able to open because of the likely online grief he would get that could damage his business. Today he is open.

Clearly very different for schools who were told to close except for those looking after kids of key workers.

 

[Foxholer]

In the eyes of some, possibly an IMO should have been tagged in.

Surely 'IMO' is implicitly tagged to EVERY post, at least in this and other 'opinion' threads - unless you onsider yourself exempt! And my 'Probably' is surely sufficient in any case!

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Come on - using your analogy the Army Major has told the troops to go over the top tomorrow - when in fact it wasn't 'tomorrow' that his General had told him - it was Wednesday. Great leadership and not great for the morale of the troops, and pretty calamitous if the major sends his boys over the top without the artillery cover as that wasn't happening until Wednesday.

Given the subsequent confusions, clarifications and corrections already made this morning by the First Secretary of State (so not a minor minister) it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Johnson's briefing has been as useful as a chocolate teapot and that at least one member of the cabinet did not fully understand what was being proposed.

So much for clarity and leadership from our PM

Coming on ? - Your decision that Boris had made a confused message was made within minutes or hours of the broadcast. That is evidenced by you quoting your wife's reaction to the broadcast.
So if the "General" had said tomorrow in that broadcast, whose fault is it if someone listening thought it was Wednesday.
In any event, my analogy was a bit different from yours. I was trying to illustrate the difference between strategy , tactics and detailed instruction .
I was defending accusations that Boris was confusing, not that he had given a clear message that was passed on wrongly( which is what your tomorrow and Wednesday analogy has given )
And the defence is that it is not his job to give minutiae of his strategy, he said clearly that would come later.
If people are demanding detail from him in that speech, like they are, I am saying that is unreasonable, and in some cases also disingenuous.

BTW , I have sent you a conversation.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales/deathsregistereduptoandincluding20april2020

Grim reading, especially for men and people who work certain sectors.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Is it safe? Could some of your employees turned up this morning on the fact boris said so?

Commuters starting to call it Muddle Monday, so perhaps Johnson's message is not getting across.

FM now taking questions from the unionist press, I hope for their sake that they have done their homework.

Oops that did not take long...……..Angry shouty reporter, 'Why do you refuse to publish Scotland's R number'
Steely look from Nicola 'I have already published Scotland's R number'.