Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Exactly. This was the top man explaining a strategy, saying the details will follow tomorrow.

It's like the Army Major giving a briefing before invasion and the soldier complaining that he hasn't said "whether I should turn left or right when i hit the beach"
?

Come on - using your analogy the Army Major has told the troops to go over the top tomorrow - when in fact it wasn't 'tomorrow' that his General had told him - it was Wednesday. Great leadership and not great for the morale of the troops, and pretty calamitous if the major sends his boys over the top without the artillery cover as that wasn't happening until Wednesday.

Given the subsequent confusions, clarifications and corrections already made this morning by the First Secretary of State (so not a minor minister) it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Johnson's briefing has been as useful as a chocolate teapot and that at least one member of the cabinet did not fully understand what was being proposed.

So much for clarity and leadership from our PM

 

[DanFST]

A bit concerned though, about the current vagueness of the return to schooling for my grandsons...

I'd imagine not the greatest time to be retired! Personally, I'd try not to add more stress thinking about it. Nothing on that front is happening till June at the earliest. Let's see one the document states and remember it can all change anyway.

 

[Wolf]

Did they look shifty? Did they smirk? Were their eyes close together?

If the answer to those is all yes then the trial only needs to last one day

I'm only guilty of the first 2 in your criteria that should mean I'm safe then ?

 

[Kellfire]

It's sexism pure and simple. A term that was literally used to justify murdering women and is currently used exclusively to demean women.

Witches are male and female and in certain countries like Iceland more male “witches” were killed than female. It’s an insult but it’s not sexist.

Wizard is not technically the male version, they’re different things so don’t be fooled by the common misunderstanding.

 

[drdel]

The media have advance notice but still ask juvenile "I'll catch you out" style questions when the answer is easily available and they could report the facts rather than race to be first with a 'click-bate' soundbite.

It is not unreasonable to imagine the because of the vast range of businesses and working practices, the Government cannot do any other that present their intentions. They want businesses that can ensure social distancing or, where not, provide mitigation of transmission, to get back to work - the specific HR working methods will be for the businesses to agree and inform their staff.

Whether people meet outside (which is obviously safer) the SD is still the paramount advice for intelligent adults to follow ( that's the erroneous assumption!)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Did you see/hear the interviews? He was asked about people going to work from today, he stated boris meant wednesday.

He said it was ok for people to meet their parents in a park at 2 metre distance, he’s wrong, No 10 has clarified.

Why blame the interviewer? He surely has seen the document hasn’t he?

I have a feeling your question may be rather rhetorical...

 

[User62651]

Damning responses to govt shambles -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1259582027038326787

https://twitter.com/x/status/1259538472181862403

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm only guilty of the first 2 in your criteria that should mean I'm safe then ?

Well, you will get to day 2 at least. Don't get caught on the court steps laughing and having a fag though. That is another way to shorten a trial

 

[Foxholer]

He gave the Exec. Summary.

There's a 50 pages of detail for those patient enough to bother.

Got a link to it?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It appears that many prefer the position being take by the Good Witch of the North...(according to L. Frank Baum - an extremely kind and gentle character who stood against the oppression and subjugation of people ).

Anyway - sounds like many in London area have taken Johnson's words of yesterday to heart and are travelling to work - packing some underground stations and trains. They must have missed Raab's clarifications and been unable to walk or cycle.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Got a link to it?

Dominic Green was last night having to lean very hard on that document when fielding questions that he could not answer - and he didn't know what was in it. Yes he is now a bit of a conservative yesterday's man - but he is a rather senior conservative and one that I have in the past had some time for - as he struggled to keep the tide from coming in on May.

 

[Swango1980]

Post here and leave the other thread to be "how is it affecting you". It used to be my go to thread each day as it was informative and potentially a place for those having a bad day to say
"I'm struggling today".

Now it's the brexit thread by another name.

So feel free to discuss PPE and who's right and wrong to your heart's content BELOW - please...pretty please.

I never trust politicians, regardless of party. Lying is part of their job. Not often maliciously, but to try and get support from a population that is massively diverse in millions of topics (sign up to twitter to get a good picture). However, for the first time in my life, this appears to be an issue where there is only one answer, beat this bloomin virus. Therefore, it is the least likely time for political games and lies. And, I believe one of the most trustworthy professions are scientists. People who are constantly caveating and questioning their own logic, while analysing alternative views of any other scientists to determine their merit.

So, I trust our scientists. And, I will make the assumption that politicians are listening to them (although the fact that MPs told us to not trust the experts during Brexit has backfired somewhat).

I'm not saying that the scientists get every single decision spot on, when we have the benefit of hindsight to judge the impact of these decisions. But, I do trust that they are making their absolute best judgements they can in the moment. And, who am I, or the press, to adamantly say they are wrong? After all, the experts we see frequently are hugely intelligent, highly qualified and experienced individuals. They represent a diverse number of disciplines specific to dealing with a pandemic, and they will have teams of hundreds of scientists working with them. I don't mind asking questions, or asking why this is being done or that isn't. But, to then blatantly say they are wrong, is in my mind meaningless because I have no experience or qualifications to defend that argument.

My biggest frustration, without a shadow of a doubt, is the media. For my sins, I watched GMB and Piers Morgan is probably the worst of the lot. But, tabloid media, and even the mainstream media are horrific in the UK. They don't give us news. They give us their opinion. Many spend their entire effort trying to catch out politicians, and thrive when there is a slip of the tongue, something not as clear as it could be, and best of all, they catch an individual out who hasn't actually followed the guidance themselves. It is the media that are primarily responsible for the mixed messages. Their focus should be getting clarification on certain issues, and then relaying that to the public. The media know that negative, sensational headlines sell. Many tabloids have their own agenda anyway, whether the are left or right leaning. Although, given the inter-party division after Brexit, even right leaning media is not going to fully support the government I guess.

Boris (and I'm not a fan of his politically) had 10-15 minutes last night to give out a message. He didn't have hours to go through every fine detail, and if he did, most human beings would have got bored and switched off the TV. So, he spent the 15 minutes basically telling us that there is no real change to lockdown, except he is offering more encouragement for people to go to work, and encouraging more exercise. Basically, they are very slightly trying to push people back to work, but hoping the public can use their common sense (in the main) to continue the way of lives we have been living for the last 7 weeks. Yet, immediately, the media pounce on the fact that every minute detail has not been expressed, as if the entire population need to be told EXACTLY what they can and cannot do (and sadly, much of the public that read these stories than agree, and demand to be told exactly what they can do, as if they are puppets). I mean, we all play golf. During his speech, he did mention sport and solo play. But, of course, we don't know the finer detail specific to golf, and he was never going to go into that detail. However, England Golf will be in more detail discussions, and give us the advice shortly. If you have not been working, then if you are employed you don't immediately go back to work today. You get guidance from your employer, and your employer will have the responsibility to find out the details in the next day or so. If self employed, the speech will have sparked interest that you may be in a position to start working again, but your next step will then be to find out how to proceed based on your actual profession.

I appreciate people are getting frustrated. I am. On one hand, I'm nervous about catching Covid, and even more nervous about a vulnerable family member getting it. On the other, I'm nervous about the economy, and the long term health impacts that could be caused by a complete collapse of the economy and massive unemployment. Some people are on one end of the scale or the other. Some are wholly focused on the catching Covid, and would happily be in lockdown until it has gone, which could be years. Others are more concerned about their jobs, and the ability to support their families and pay their mortgage over the long term. Very generally speaking, would a retired vulnerable pensioner have the same opinion as a 20/30 something year old chef with 3 kids and a partner? This is the difficulty of a government who is meant to be looking out for us all, yet and measures would not necessarily be perfect for every single individual and their own circumstances.

I just wish we could get behind the government and the scientists for this, because it will be them that get us through it. It won't be me, it won't be Piers Morgan or Gary Linekar. Keep asking questions, indeed, but don't automatically decide the answer you get is wrong before you have even heard and digested it.

 

[drdel]

Got a link to it?

Government website this afternoon.

Current summary is surely clear enough if people take it sensibly ... e.g. it says...

Stay alert
We can all help control the virus if we all stay alert. This means you must:

• Stay at home as much as possible
• Work from home if you can
• Limit contact with other people
• Keep your distance if you go out (2 metres apart where possible)
• Wash your hands regularly

Self-isolate if you or anyone in your household has symptoms.

 

[Foxholer]

Or those asking daft questions could have taken the time to do their research.

How long before BoJo read (well, waffled through) the anouncement was it announed that there'd be an announcement on Sunday? Was it almost a week? Surely that's sufficient time to organise a proper 'release', even if there may be some last minute changes.

You seem to becoming simply an apologist for this government's (or party's) shambolic PR!

 

[AmandaJR]

I never trust politicians, regardless of party. Lying is part of their job. Not often maliciously, but to try and get support from a population that is massively diverse in millions of topics (sign up to twitter to get a good picture). However, for the first time in my life, this appears to be an issue where there is only one answer, beat this bloomin virus. Therefore, it is the least likely time for political games and lies. And, I believe one of the most trustworthy professions are scientists. People who are constantly caveating and questioning their own logic, while analysing alternative views of any other scientists to determine their merit.

So, I trust our scientists. And, I will make the assumption that politicians are listening to them (although the fact that MPs told us to not trust the experts during Brexit has backfired somewhat).

I'm not saying that the scientists get every single decision spot on, when we have the benefit of hindsight to judge the impact of these decisions. But, I do trust that they are making their absolute best judgements they can in the moment. And, who am I, or the press, to adamantly say they are wrong? After all, the experts we see frequently are hugely intelligent, highly qualified and experienced individuals. They represent a diverse number of disciplines specific to dealing with a pandemic, and they will have teams of hundreds of scientists working with them. I don't mind asking questions, or asking why this is being done or that isn't. But, to then blatantly say they are wrong, is in my mind meaningless because I have no experience or qualifications to defend that argument.

My biggest frustration, without a shadow of a doubt, is the media. For my sins, I watched GMB and Piers Morgan is probably the worst of the lot. But, tabloid media, and even the mainstream media are horrific in the UK. They don't give us news. They give us their opinion. Many spend their entire effort trying to catch out politicians, and thrive when there is a slip of the tongue, something not as clear as it could be, and best of all, they catch an individual out who hasn't actually followed the guidance themselves. It is the media that are primarily responsible for the mixed messages. Their focus should be getting clarification on certain issues, and then relaying that to the public. The media know that negative, sensational headlines sell. Many tabloids have their own agenda anyway, whether the are left or right leaning. Although, given the inter-party division after Brexit, even right leaning media is not going to fully support the government I guess.

Boris (and I'm not a fan of his politically) had 10-15 minutes last night to give out a message. He didn't have hours to go through every fine detail, and if he did, most human beings would have got bored and switched off the TV. So, he spent the 15 minutes basically telling us that there is no real change to lockdown, except he is offering more encouragement for people to go to work, and encouraging more exercise. Basically, they are very slightly trying to push people back to work, but hoping the public can use their common sense (in the main) to continue the way of lives we have been living for the last 7 weeks. Yet, immediately, the media pounce on the fact that every minute detail has not been expressed, as if the entire population need to be told EXACTLY what they can and cannot do (and sadly, much of the public that read these stories than agree, and demand to be told exactly what they can do, as if they are puppets). I mean, we all play golf. During his speech, he did mention sport and solo play. But, of course, we don't know the finer detail specific to golf, and he was never going to go into that detail. However, England Golf will be in more detail discussions, and give us the advice shortly. If you have not been working, then if you are employed you don't immediately go back to work today. You get guidance from your employer, and your employer will have the responsibility to find out the details in the next day or so. If self employed, the speech will have sparked interest that you may be in a position to start working again, but your next step will then be to find out how to proceed based on your actual profession.

I appreciate people are getting frustrated. I am. On one hand, I'm nervous about catching Covid, and even more nervous about a vulnerable family member getting it. On the other, I'm nervous about the economy, and the long term health impacts that could be caused by a complete collapse of the economy and massive unemployment. Some people are on one end of the scale or the other. Some are wholly focused on the catching Covid, and would happily be in lockdown until it has gone, which could be years. Others are more concerned about their jobs, and the ability to support their families and pay their mortgage over the long term. Very generally speaking, would a retired vulnerable pensioner have the same opinion as a 20/30 something year old chef with 3 kids and a partner? This is the difficulty of a government who is meant to be looking out for us all, yet and measures would not necessarily be perfect for every single individual and their own circumstances.

I just wish we could get behind the government and the scientists for this, because it will be them that get us through it. It won't be me, it won't be Piers Morgan or Gary Linekar. Keep asking questions, indeed, but don't automatically decide the answer you get is wrong before you have even heard and digested it.

I've been amazed how many professional people - business owners, head teachers etc. who have been bleating this morning "we don't know how...we haven't been told...the government hasn't given clarity". Do your job. Accept some responsibility for decisions. Listen to the detail given today and then implement some of the plans you should already have had in place for a re-opening. Head teachers usually bleat about government interference and now they want to be given chapter and verse as to how to run their school. Gave up on the news in the end as it was just more of the same and not one person said "ok, that's good...we have a plan and now will get to work preparing".

 

[Hacker Khan]

I never trust politicians, regardless of party. Lying is part of their job. Not often maliciously, but to try and get support from a population that is massively diverse in millions of topics (sign up to twitter to get a good picture). However, for the first time in my life, this appears to be an issue where there is only one answer, beat this bloomin virus. Therefore, it is the least likely time for political games and lies. And, I believe one of the most trustworthy professions are scientists. People who are constantly caveating and questioning their own logic, while analysing alternative views of any other scientists to determine their merit.

So, I trust our scientists. And, I will make the assumption that politicians are listening to them (although the fact that MPs told us to not trust the experts during Brexit has backfired somewhat).

I'm not saying that the scientists get every single decision spot on, when we have the benefit of hindsight to judge the impact of these decisions. But, I do trust that they are making their absolute best judgements they can in the moment. And, who am I, or the press, to adamantly say they are wrong? After all, the experts we see frequently are hugely intelligent, highly qualified and experienced individuals. They represent a diverse number of disciplines specific to dealing with a pandemic, and they will have teams of hundreds of scientists working with them. I don't mind asking questions, or asking why this is being done or that isn't. But, to then blatantly say they are wrong, is in my mind meaningless because I have no experience or qualifications to defend that argument.

My biggest frustration, without a shadow of a doubt, is the media. For my sins, I watched GMB and Piers Morgan is probably the worst of the lot. But, tabloid media, and even the mainstream media are horrific in the UK. They don't give us news. They give us their opinion. Many spend their entire effort trying to catch out politicians, and thrive when there is a slip of the tongue, something not as clear as it could be, and best of all, they catch an individual out who hasn't actually followed the guidance themselves. It is the media that are primarily responsible for the mixed messages. Their focus should be getting clarification on certain issues, and then relaying that to the public. The media know that negative, sensational headlines sell. Many tabloids have their own agenda anyway, whether the are left or right leaning. Although, given the inter-party division after Brexit, even right leaning media is not going to fully support the government I guess.

Boris (and I'm not a fan of his politically) had 10-15 minutes last night to give out a message. He didn't have hours to go through every fine detail, and if he did, most human beings would have got bored and switched off the TV. So, he spent the 15 minutes basically telling us that there is no real change to lockdown, except he is offering more encouragement for people to go to work, and encouraging more exercise. Basically, they are very slightly trying to push people back to work, but hoping the public can use their common sense (in the main) to continue the way of lives we have been living for the last 7 weeks. Yet, immediately, the media pounce on the fact that every minute detail has not been expressed, as if the entire population need to be told EXACTLY what they can and cannot do (and sadly, much of the public that read these stories than agree, and demand to be told exactly what they can do, as if they are puppets). I mean, we all play golf. During his speech, he did mention sport and solo play. But, of course, we don't know the finer detail specific to golf, and he was never going to go into that detail. However, England Golf will be in more detail discussions, and give us the advice shortly. If you have not been working, then if you are employed you don't immediately go back to work today. You get guidance from your employer, and your employer will have the responsibility to find out the details in the next day or so. If self employed, the speech will have sparked interest that you may be in a position to start working again, but your next step will then be to find out how to proceed based on your actual profession.

I appreciate people are getting frustrated. I am. On one hand, I'm nervous about catching Covid, and even more nervous about a vulnerable family member getting it. On the other, I'm nervous about the economy, and the long term health impacts that could be caused by a complete collapse of the economy and massive unemployment. Some people are on one end of the scale or the other. Some are wholly focused on the catching Covid, and would happily be in lockdown until it has gone, which could be years. Others are more concerned about their jobs, and the ability to support their families and pay their mortgage over the long term. Very generally speaking, would a retired vulnerable pensioner have the same opinion as a 20/30 something year old chef with 3 kids and a partner? This is the difficulty of a government who is meant to be looking out for us all, yet and measures would not necessarily be perfect for every single individual and their own circumstances.

I just wish we could get behind the government and the scientists for this, because it will be them that get us through it. It won't be me, it won't be Piers Morgan or Gary Linekar. Keep asking questions, indeed, but don't automatically decide the answer you get is wrong before you have even heard and digested it.

And the worrying thing is that most newspaper media is favourable to the conservative government, imagine how apoplectic they would be if Labour were in power...

In British society we have created a situation where complex messages and issues have been simplified beyond belief and the public often treated like idiots, often for political gain. You can't then start getting upset if people are not understanding nuanced, and at times complex messages.

 

[AmandaJR]

I thought Boris started ok but then it was a bit too much waffle and overdid the statesman/churchillian like effort. To be fair I didn't think he had that in him and he's generally spoken quite well.

I'm not confused by the message and read the whole transcript today to see what I was missing as there seems confusion a plenty. Still confused about the confusion.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I've been amazed how many professional people - business owners, head teachers etc. who have been bleating this morning "we don't know how...we haven't been told...the government hasn't given clarity". Do your job. Accept some responsibility for decisions. Listen to the detail given today and then implement some of the plans you should already have had in place for a re-opening. Head teachers usually bleat about government interference and now they want to be given chapter and verse as to how to run their school. Gave up on the news in the end as it was just more of the same and not one person said "ok, that's good...we have a plan and now will get to work preparing".

The vast majority do have various plans and are very competent at running their schools. The are perhaps asking for a bit more clarity and a few key headlines for parents, as a lot of them this morning are spending their time firefighting and trying to calm down worried parents and teachers.

 

[Foxholer]

Government website this afternoon.

Current summary is surely clear enough if people take it sensibly ... e.g. it says...

Stay alert
We can all help control the virus if we all stay alert. This means you must:

• Stay at home as much as possible
• Work from home if you can
• Limit contact with other people
• Keep your distance if you go out (2 metres apart where possible)
• Wash your hands regularly

Self-isolate if you or anyone in your household has symptoms.

Got a link to it? The 50 page doc! 2nd time asked, so expect a link!

The info above hasn't changed from pevious recommendation (and may actually BE previous recommendation)! Have you noticed the time? It's not 'this afternoon' yet!!

 

[Foxholer]

I thought Boris started ok but then it was a bit too much waffle and overdid the statesman/churchillian like effort. To be fair I didn't think he had that in him and he's generally spoken quite well.

I'm not confused by the message and read the whole transcript today to see what I was missing as there seems confusion a plenty. Still confused about the confusion.

Probably BoJo's worst (public) performance!