Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Deleted member 16999]

Spot on Paul, I wanted to do a few jobs in the house and popped to B&Q, when I arrived I was about 5th in the queue and when I left there was about 50 people. As I pass B&Q when I go to work it's easy to see that there are hardly any cars in their car park when closed

I live 500yds from the coast and I’ve been out on my bike for an hour around the same time every day since the lockdown began week before last there was undoubtably an increase in cars on the road, I put that down to some business’s, schools etc returning after the Easter holidays, this last week it seems to have quitened down a bit, but nowhere near what it was like over the 2 week Easter period.

Whatever measures were taken 95-99% would of followed them.

 

[Hobbit]

Gove threatens to use the Isle of Wight as test area for lifting lockdown.
IOW folk say fine by us, so long as you keep the groccles out.
Ferry to run essential services only.

Similar for Spain. The Canaries are starting further through the unlock phases than the mainland. Cuelta, Mielta and one of the Balearics similarly.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If country-to-country comparisons of numbers are not particularly valid due to the different ways that different countries do the counting - what's the point of the comparison graphs we are presented with every day? Are all comparisons so invalidated - or are some comparisons valid. I have found them interesting and useful - but if interesting is all they are, are they then potentially misleading?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think at the moment the virus has mostly not hit the developing nations, with Africa not having many cases. Let's hope it stays that way, but there is a big danger if it takes hold in developing nations who through a combination of questionable leadership in some countries and lack of access to the health care and protective equipment than the more developed nations have, it will kill a lot of people. As for the US I suspect Trump views a certain number of deaths as an acceptable compromise as long as he gets re-elected. And there are a worrying number of US citizens who seem to view any form of lock down as 'unconstitutional'.

Interesting piece on Newsnight last night on how South Africa has coped with the pandemic. Some of their success coming down to the fact that it is basically only 'whites' who travel abroad in any significant numbers and when they return to SA they generally do not mix with the black population - the population most at risk due to their housing densities and poverty.

But it seemed to be the case that the SA government applied a very severe lockdown very early on, knowing the terrible risk it posed and poses if it gets into the black and townships population.

 

[Hacker Khan]

If country-to-country comparisons of numbers are not particularly valid due to the different ways that different countries do the counting - what's the point of the comparison graphs we are presented with every day? Are all comparisons so invalidated - or are some comparisons valid. I have found them interesting and useful - but if interesting is all they are, are they then potentially misleading?

I'm sure if we had the relative success that South Korea or New Zealand seem to have had up to this point then the comparison graphs would be very relevant in some quarters. Lies, damn lies and statistics.....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Fine line for the Government to walk, unfortunately some in society will always push it too far if given “wiggle” room.

I did the 3minutes drive to my club one evening last week, just to go for a walk. I was struck that my feelings in driving changed from 'I shouldn't be doing this' on the way there - to on the way back 'well that was no big deal - maybe I can do this a bit more regularly'. I dismissed the thought pretty quickly as I knew it was not what I should be thinking about doing. But the thought came up. And I haven't done it again.

And so were I to drive the six miles to my nearest B&Q I could easy find myself thinking similar thoughts - if I was minded to consider that a visit to B&Q was essential - and it simply isn't. But many will - and they might also think that it was no big deal and so why not more regularly. And the traffic volumes builds. And the containment measures start to fail...

 

[ColchesterFC]

If country-to-country comparisons of numbers are not particularly valid due to the different ways that different countries do the counting - what's the point of the comparison graphs we are presented with every day? Are all comparisons so invalidated - or are some comparisons valid. I have found them interesting and useful - but if interesting is all they are, are they then potentially misleading?

Straight comparison of the numbers is misleading. For example I'm pretty sure that in Germany it's only those that die due to Covid that are counted and not those who die with Covid. In the UK if a person dies while affected by Covid that is included in our numbers.

So an 85 year old man who has a heart attack would be counted in the UK as a Covid death if he had the infection but wouldn't be included in German numbers.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Gove threatens to use the Isle of Wight as test area for lifting lockdown.
IOW folk say fine by us, so long as you keep the groccles out.
Ferry to run essential services only.

There you go using the word " threaten" . You don't state the reason there will be some easing there ( either because you don't know, or it doesn't suit your agenda)
It is to test a new app which if successful will enable an easing of lockdown whilst keeping the ability to know quickly what is happening .
They use the island because being an island it is best suited to monitor the apps efficiency.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

There you go using the word " threaten" . You don't state the reason there will be some easing there ( either because you don't know, or it doesn't suit your agenda)
It is to test a new app which if successful will enable an easing of lockdown whilst keeping the ability to know quickly what is happening .
They use the island because being an island it is best suited to monitor the apps efficiency.

According to the Jeremy Vine show the other day the mp for the island asked if they could do the trial there. He saw it as a positive.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

If country-to-country comparisons of numbers are not particularly valid due to the different ways that different countries do the counting - what's the point of the comparison graphs we are presented with every day? Are all comparisons so invalidated - or are some comparisons valid. I have found them interesting and useful - but if interesting is all they are, are they then potentially misleading?

Well, they are what they are. E.g. Germany says " Here's our figures"
Our government use them. Our government know how meaningful they are if the counting is different ( seems it is). But they can't change/adjust them, for the same reason as
if they didn't show such a comparative graph, no doubt the journos and others would cry " cover up, not showing how bad you're handling this compared with others...". etc.
So in a strict sense, they could be "misleading", depends on each person to decide if they are maliciously so, and if so, by whom.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Straight comparison of the numbers is misleading. For example I'm pretty sure that in Germany it's only those that die due to Covid that are counted and not those who die with Covid. In the UK if a person dies while affected by Covid that is included in our numbers.

So an 85 year old man who has a heart attack would be counted in the UK as a Covid death if he had the infection but wouldn't be included in German numbers.

But also you could say that Germany always counted deaths in care homes where as we only did recently. I agree you will never get a straight exact like for like comparison, but people should ask if countries apparent success, or lack of, is purely due to these differences in counting and classifying. Or are there other more fundamental underlying factors or approaches that some countries have taken and some haven't that we can learn from, other than classifying the deaths slightly differently. As to me different ways of classifying a death should never be used as a get out clause if there are significant differences in approaches. And the resultant deaths, no matter how they are counted, are significantly different.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I did the 3minutes drive to my club one evening last week, just to go for a walk. I was struck that my feelings in driving changed from 'I shouldn't be doing this' on the way there - to on the way back 'well that was no big deal - maybe I can do this a bit more regularly'. I dismissed the thought pretty quickly as I knew it was not what I should be thinking about doing. But the thought came up. And I haven't done it again.

And so were I to drive the six miles to my nearest B&Q I could easy find myself thinking similar thoughts - if I was minded to consider that a visit to B&Q was essential - and it simply isn't. But many will - and they might also think that it was no big deal and so why not more regularly. And the traffic volumes builds. And the containment measures start to fail...

True, but I was more thinking the Government clarifying/relaxing the rules on exercise on 20th April:

1. You are allowed to drive somewhere to take your exercise. The guidance says, ‘it is lawful to drive for exercise.’ However, ‘Driving for a prolonged period with only brief exercise’ is also deemed ‘not likely to be reasonable’. The rule of thumb? You’re allowed to drive somewhere to go for a walk or run as long as you spend much more time walking than you do driving.

Prior to this I believe people doing exercise as a whole, stayed local or did not drive at all.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Watching the news just beforv5pm, they seem to be saying most important thing is whether Hancock has achieved his target of 100000 tests.
Guarantee:
If he says he has not he'll be slated
If he says he has, he'll be accused of fiddling the figures.

Jeez.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Watching the news just beforv5pm, they seem to be saying most important thing is whether Hancock has achieved his target of 100000 tests.
Guarantee:
If he says he has he'll be slated
If he says he has, he'll be accused of fiddling the figures.

Jeez.

Or ignore the News and decide for yourself, ie, was 100,000 a realistic or ambitious target?

For me going on the testing figures we were getting told it was ambitious, and good on him, I’d rather he was aiming high and putting pressure on himself and the system to step up to that mark.

So if it comes anywhere near, great result, if he gets nowhere near he needs to tell us why and be a bit more realistic.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Watching the news just beforv5pm, they seem to be saying most important thing is whether Hancock has achieved his target of 100000 tests.
Guarantee:
If he says he has not he'll be slated
If he says he has, he'll be accused of fiddling the figures.

Jeez.

I'm assuming as he's doing it they have. And fair play, it seems that testing is a huge part of getting this under control so let's keep it up. Would have been nice if we'd have got to this point earlier, but we are where we are.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Or ignore the News and decide for yourself, ie, was 100,000 a realistic or ambitious target?

For me going on the testing figures we were getting told it was ambitious, and good on him, I’d rather he was aiming high and putting pressure on himself and the system to step up to that mark.

So if it comes anywhere near, great result, if he gets nowhere near he needs to tell us why and be a bit more realistic.

Smashed it, now let’s keep it going upwards.

 

[rudebhoy]

122k tests yesterday. Well done.

The real test now is to achieve that kind of level on an ongoing basis.

 

[Imurg]

Piers Morgan is going to be pissed off......

 

[Old Skier]

Smashed it, now let’s keep it going upwards.

Our testing center is shutting down Monday evening so it will be back to 2 hr round trip. Mind you, I had to go there last night to pick up kits to deliver testing kits to a couple of care homes and the lads said they weren't that busy.

 

[SocketRocket]

As Hancock was expected to be castigated on not achieving his testing target and many were suggesting only a very short time ago that the numbers were unachievable he deserves a great deal of credit for pulling out the stops. There have indeed been some very good initiatives and achievements like the Nightingales and numbers of ventilators.