Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[SocketRocket]

Get the violins out, looks like we’re having a “poor off”

He started it.

 

[Hobbit]

He started it.

 

[Hobbit]

It's quite amusing as I was bought up in a rough Greater London council estate, did a paper round at 10 years old, had a father leave home when I was 7 years old , was forced to leave grammer school at 15, had an arsewhipe stepfather - so hardly a silver spoon up bringing. I did, however, work hard and eventually started a decent business and did reasonably well - not great but ok !

I'm sure Dave knows where South Bank is in Middlesbrough. Many of us started out the same way.

Equally, most of us no longer have a Quixotic way of tilting at bonfires that are long since gone.

 

[2blue]

It's quite amusing as I was bought up in a rough Greater London council estate, did a paper round at 10 years old, had a father leave home when I was 7 years old , was forced to leave grammer school at 15, had an arsewhipe stepfather - so hardly a silver spoon up bringing. I did, however, work hard and eventually started a decent business and did reasonably well - not great but ok !

Must say it sounds a bit rough family wise Chris...... but even so you maybe didn't realise, & a bit early for young Bri , that in the UK in the 50's/60's everywhere in towns & cities was rough.... council houses were highly sort after & the highest standard of rented accommodation where you would never find yourself having to go outside to the netty in the dark with a candle....... & Grammer School was a privilege. Any way well done for getting where you did...... it's just some of us don't forget our roots..... it's important yer knar!

 

[chrisd]

Must say it sounds a bit rough family wise Chris...... but even so you maybe didn't realise, & a bit early for young Bri , that in the UK in the 50's/60's everywhere in towns & cities was rough.... council houses were highly sort after & the highest standard of rented accommodation where you would never find yourself having to go outside to the netty in the dark with a candle....... & Grammer School was a privilege. Any way well done for getting where you did...... it's just some of us don't forget our roots..... it's important yer knar!

I hardly ever look back, I cant do anything about the past (which I dont have any regrets about) but even now I always try to look forward. Grammar school was only as a result of passing the 11 plus.

You did well too and live a lifestyle, like me, that our parents would have died for, and that is also down to you and your work ethic. We both, it seems, started similarly but our political beliefs and how they have played out during our lives differ and I believe one thing and you the opposite - truth is that there is right and wrong in those opposing views from both sides I suspect.

 

[SocketRocket]

I'm sure Dave knows where South Bank is in Middlesbrough. Many of us started out the same way.

Equally, most of us no longer have a Quixotic way of tilting at bonfires that are long since gone.

Yes, but let's not overdo our new lifestyles.

 

[Backache]

Do you think a Journalist asking why NHS staff have dyed will make a difference
.

I do, far too many people with pink hair these days.

 

[Mudball]

UK deaths will mostly likely overtake Italy at some point. Is it a coincidence that two counties that are ruled by narcissist men who did not take action on time and relied on spin and weak opponents are likely to end up as #1 and #2 in the world despite having access to some of the best science and talent...

Equally half of the population that support these men can’t see what they did wrong.

 

[Old Skier]

I do, far too many people with pink hair these days.

Quote of the day - cheered I up

 

[SocketRocket]

UK deaths will mostly likely overtake Italy at some point. Is it a coincidence that two counties that are ruled by narcissist men who did not take action on time and relied on spin and weak opponents are likely to end up as #1 and #2 in the world despite having access to some of the best science and talent...

Equally half of the population that support these men can’t see what they did wrong.

That's a rather cynical view of the situation. I guess you are looking at the infection/death rates of countries without considering their populations which is a false picture. Please take a look at the enclosed graphs that show case and death rates per million of population which is a much better comparison. It does not take into account your somewhat unrelated view of countries leaders.
Top = cases per million population.
Bottom = deaths per million population.

 

[rudebhoy]

That's a rather cynical view of the situation. I guess you are looking at the infection/death rates of countries without considering their populations which is a false picture. Please take a look at the enclosed graphs that show case and death rates per million of population which is a much better comparison. It does not take into account your somewhat unrelated view of countries leaders.
Top = cases per million population.
Bottom = deaths per million population.
View attachment 30331View attachment 30332

Deaths per million (or indeed total deaths) is a meaningless comparison unless we know that everyone is counting in the same way.

Lots of people are dying of Covid19 in care homes but are not being counted because they weren't tested. There was a story on our local news last night about a care home where 17 residents died in the last 2 weeks. The virus was almost certainly the cause of death in all cases, however only 2 cases will be counted as they were the only ones to be tested. The FT was estimating an overall figure of 43,000 a few days ago.

So lots of cases are being missed here, but no doubt that is also happening to a greater or lesser extent in other countries.

 

[drdel]

That's a rather cynical view of the situation. I guess you are looking at the infection/death rates of countries without considering their populations which is a false picture. Please take a look at the enclosed graphs that show case and death rates per million of population which is a much better comparison. It does not take into account your somewhat unrelated view of countries leaders.
Top = cases per million population.
Bottom = deaths per million population.
View attachment 30331View attachment 30332

The reported stats also ignore population density, important when the transmission requires relatively close contact. London for example is about 7 times higher than the average for the rest of the UK.

 

[Mudball]

That's a rather cynical view of the situation. I guess you are looking at the infection/death rates of countries without considering their populations which is a false picture. Please take a look at the enclosed graphs that show case and death rates per million of population which is a much better comparison. It does not take into account your somewhat unrelated view of countries leaders.
Top = cases per million population.
Bottom = deaths per million population.
View attachment 30331View attachment 30332

IMO... Case per million is quiet a pointless exercise that Trump is now using to show why he is better than the rest of the world combined. It is interesting to see China and India missing from the above graphs. I suspect, if you divide anything by 1.5b, the number will disappear off this chart. If you want smaller populations, then where is NZ or Australia - both islands like UK? Stats are a good but you can use it to spin any message.

I would like to see
1) Tests per million - I suspect S Korea hit that out of the park while US & UK fall behind
2) Fatality/Recovery rate - This would be a magic number which shows the power of science and how many people make a full recovery

PS:
1) This post is not meant against your kind self but its my frustration
2) While I dont like BoJo and his bunch of cronies, at the moment, I cant think of a better person to handle it in the UK than him. He may be a tw*t, but the others are worse.

 

[SocketRocket]

Deaths per million (or indeed total deaths) is a meaningless comparison unless we know that everyone is counting in the same way.

Lots of people are dying of Covid19 in care homes but are not being counted because they weren't tested. There was a story on our local news last night about a care home where 17 residents died in the last 2 weeks. The virus was almost certainly the cause of death in all cases, however only 2 cases will be counted as they were the only ones to be tested. The FT was estimating an overall figure of 43,000 a few days ago.

So lots of cases are being missed here, but no doubt that is also happening to a greater or lesser extent in other countries.

Yes, it would be good to see the numbers with every consideration factored in but the numbers of deaths in hospitals for example measured country against country is a very poor way of comparison on a graphn. Per million of population is a much better way.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Deaths per million (or indeed total deaths) is a meaningless comparison unless we know that everyone is counting in the same way.

Lots of people are dying of Covid19 in care homes but are not being counted because they weren't tested. There was a story on our local news last night about a care home where 17 residents died in the last 2 weeks. The virus was almost certainly the cause of death in all cases, however only 2 cases will be counted as they were the only ones to be tested. The FT was estimating an overall figure of 43,000 a few days ago.

So lots of cases are being missed here, but no doubt that is also happening to a greater or lesser extent in other countries.

As I understand it deaths outside hospitals from Covid 19 do not include only those that have been tested.

These other deaths now included within the daily totals require the Death Certificate to include the virus amongst the likely causes of death.

That being the case the total figure could surely be inflated beyond the actual as the virus may not have been the prime cause.

 

[Ethan]

The data interpretations are many and varied, but hampered by a few things. Firstly, it is not necessarily relevant to use countries as denominators. China, for example, is a very populous country, but the outbreak was most concentrated in Wuhan. Is it more meaningful to just include that region or to dilute the figure with all the other areas that never, or have not yet, got cases? Likewise the US. New York is a long way from the Rocky Mountain states. Also, the data reliability is variable./ China data seems to be rather dodgy and uK data may not be much better. The official stats say that about 1/6 of deaths occur in the care sector, but there is much discussion in medical fora to suggest that is a significant underestimate, driven in part by corners unwillingness to allow death certificates to mention Covid unless a positive test is available. But many of these places did not have testing available, so a number of Covd death are being missed. Likewise other community deaths of elderly people who had a very typical history of Covid and went fast despite having no test. I think we will see quite a few death certificates being corrected down the line.

Patrick Vallance said a few weeks ago that a final total of 20k would be a good result. We have clearly blown through that, probably more like 40k so far, and no immediate sight of stopping, never mind the inevitable increase again when social distancing rules are eased. I don't think anyone can really argue we have done particularly well in the UK, or that we have in any way done better than Spain or Italy. We should have been doing better given the example they were providing for us.

 

[Mudball]

Just a friendly reminder before we all use graphs as the new shiny toy..

 

[chrisd]

As I understand it deaths outside hospitals from Covid 19 do not include only those that have been tested.

These other deaths now included within the daily totals require the Death Certificate to include the virus amongst the likely causes of death.

That being the case the total figure could surely be inflated beyond the actual as the virus may not have been the prime cause.

Quite correct imo, unless things changed since earlier, if the doctor writes on the death certificate Covid19 then I understood it was included even if Covid was not necessarily the main cause of death. The graphs also dont show the comparative age of deaths which surely is a factor

 

[SocketRocket]

Just a friendly reminder before we all use graphs as the new shiny toy..

View attachment 30336

What about your predictions, they were pretty damning and based on what?

 

[Mudball]

What about your predictions, they were pretty damning and based on what?

Pl do as i say... not as i do..