Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[rudebhoy]

Quite correct imo, unless things changed since earlier, if the doctor writes on the death certificate Covid19 then I understood it was included even if Covid was not necessarily the main cause of death. The graphs also dont show the comparative age of deaths which surely is a factor

According to the ONS, only 1% of cases had "suspected Covid 19" on the death certificate. Would a doctor writing a death certificate really put down Covid 19 as the cause of death unless they were certain? (i.e. there had been a test)


"Our definition of COVID-19 includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain, for example, because no test was done. Of the 3,372 deaths with an underlying cause of COVID-19, 38 (1%) were classified as “suspected” COVID-19. Looking at all mentions, “suspected” COVID-19 was recorded on 1% of all deaths involving COVID-19."

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula.../deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/latest

 

[Ethan]

According to the ONS, only 1% of cases had "suspected Covid 19" on the death certificate. Would a doctor writing a death certificate really put down Covid 19 as the cause of death unless they were certain? (i.e. there had been a test)


"Our definition of COVID-19 includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain, for example, because no test was done. Of the 3,372 deaths with an underlying cause of COVID-19, 38 (1%) were classified as “suspected” COVID-19. Looking at all mentions, “suspected” COVID-19 was recorded on 1% of all deaths involving COVID-19."

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula.../deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/latest

The presentation and clinical features of Covid can be quite distinctive. For example a silent hypoxia where the O2 sat is very low but the patient is not apparently short of breath, and certain X Ray and scan findings.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

The presentation and clinical features of Covid can be quite distinctive. For example a silent hypoxia where the O2 sat is very low but the patient is not apparently short of breath, and certain X Ray and scan findings.

Genuine question from a complete layman. Is the above the symptoms more akin to Altitude sickness than pneumonia?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The reported stats also ignore population density, important when the transmission requires relatively close contact. London for example is about 7 times higher than the average for the rest of the UK.

They are also saying that air pollution is a factor, goes with population density of course.

 

[Backache]

Genuine question from a complete layman. Is the above the symptoms more akin to Altitude sickness than pneumonia?

It doesn't look very much like altitude sickness.

 

[SocketRocket]

They are also saying that air pollution is a factor, goes with population density of course.

Are MENSA members OK then?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

It doesn't look very much like altitude sickness.

If you are interested, please see post 40 in thread "Debate about ventilators ",, circa page 4.
Some US doctors are of opinion that symptoms suggest the virus behaves more like altitude sickness than pneumonia and suggest CPAPtreatment is better than ventilators. They describe the ability of the chest to work is not impaired as it is in pneumonia. In view of Ethans post , he seems to suggest similar, unless I misunderstand. Hence the question.

 

[Ethan]

Genuine question from a complete layman. Is the above the symptoms more akin to Altitude sickness than pneumonia?

There is a school of thought to that effect, and it may be one reason why conventional ventilation protocols don't work all that well.

The basic condition has elements of laryngitis and tracheitis, highly sensitive to irritation causing coughing spasms. In some people you also get a lower tract element or pneumonitis with thick mucus which interferes with oxygenation. Altitude sickness has pulmonary oedema (watery fluid) instead of mucus. The hypoxia can be silent, which is unusual. Some people are said to be comfortable at rest but getting bugger all oxygen in. There can also be later complications, around day 7 where an inflammatory condition called ARDS (Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome) occurs. Others get a Cytokine Release Syndrome where some of the products of tussle damage call damage to other organs, liver, kidneys, heart etc. It is a really nasty condition. I only personally know 2 people that have had it and they both survived. Both are Emergency Department doctors. NHS staff seem to be at higher risk, and greater risk of a severe illness through high viral load.

 

[SocketRocket]

There is a school of thought to that effect, and it may be one reason why conventional ventilation protocols don't work all that well.

The basic condition has elements of laryngitis and tracheitis, highly sensitive to irritation causing coughing spasms. In some people you also get a lower tract element or pneumonitis with thick mucus which interferes with oxygenation. Altitude sickness has pulmonary oedema (watery fluid) instead of mucus. The hypoxia can be silent, which is unusual. Some people are said to be comfortable at rest but getting bugger all oxygen in. There can also be later complications, around day 7 where an inflammatory condition called ARDS (Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome) occurs. Others get a Cytokine Release Syndrome where some of the products of tussle damage call damage to other organs, liver, kidneys, heart etc. It is a really nasty condition. I only personally know 2 people that have had it and they both survived. Both are Emergency Department doctors. NHS staff seem to be at higher risk, and greater risk of a severe illness through high viral load.

That's an interesting post. Regarding the high viral load, is this where the initial amount of viral intake creates a potental worse outcome?

 

[Mudball]

Interesting stats in the middle of this FT article >> https://www.ft.com/content/1c079f85-2c61-4bd0-a7c6-39356ea6a6eb

Having lost more than 60,000 people, the US accounts for a quarter of the world’s Covid-19 deaths with just 5 per cent of its population.
America has a third of global infections.
Forty-two countries have higher per capita rates of testing than the US — some by a considerable multiple.

So much for MAGA. ofcourse, thanks to Trump, it is not 2million - same as it is not 500k because of Boris

 

[Kellfire]

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ely-selling-ppe?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_WhatsApp

This man won’t be popular.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ely-selling-ppe?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_WhatsApp

This man won’t be popular.

Is there any truth in the story that Dominic Cumming's brother owns the company that will be supplying the covid19 ap to the government.
Seen a couple of mentions of this.

 

[bluewolf]

Is there any truth in the story that Dominic Cumming's brother owns the company that will be supplying the covid19 ap to the government.
Seen a couple of mentions of this.

Not from recollection. If I’m right, it’s the brother of one of Cummings friends/advisors.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Interesting stats in the middle of this FT article >> https://www.ft.com/content/1c079f85-2c61-4bd0-a7c6-39356ea6a6eb

Having lost more than 60,000 people, the US accounts for a quarter of the world’s Covid-19 deaths with just 5 per cent of its population.
America has a third of global infections.
Forty-two countries have higher per capita rates of testing than the US — some by a considerable multiple.

So much for MAGA. ofcourse, thanks to Trump, it is not 2million - same as it is not 500k because of Boris

I think at the moment the virus has mostly not hit the developing nations, with Africa not having many cases. Let's hope it stays that way, but there is a big danger if it takes hold in developing nations who through a combination of questionable leadership in some countries and lack of access to the health care and protective equipment than the more developed nations have, it will kill a lot of people. As for the US I suspect Trump views a certain number of deaths as an acceptable compromise as long as he gets re-elected. And there are a worrying number of US citizens who seem to view any form of lock down as 'unconstitutional'.

 

[drdel]

In the absence of a medical cure or vaccine there very,very few practical policy options when dealing with a pandemic.

Firstly the vast majority of all citizens have to accept the change and controls brought to their lives. Secondly, they have to accept their continued application of the controls. In the UK and more so in the USA "Land of the Free" there's a fine balance in maintaining the controls and members of the public just deciding they know what's best for themselves .

We have already seen in the UK that car use is rising because people become complacent and begin to think 'it won't affect me" and the financial hardship kicks in.

The science is well known and this virus is now embedded in society. Fatalities will continue for many more months until treatments and vaccines are found. In the meantime the Government (of whatever political leaning) need to keep people on-side but as the infection rate drops that will get harder and harder as more and more people 'relax'.

It would not surprise me if some controls were actually increased and made more stringent.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

In the absence of a medical cure or vaccine there very,very few practical policy options when dealing with a pandemic.

Firstly the vast majority of all citizens have to accept the change and controls brought to their lives. Secondly, they have to accept their continued application of the controls. In the UK and more so in the USA "Land of the Free" there's a fine balance in maintaining the controls and members of the public just deciding they know what's best for themselves .

We have already seen in the UK that car use is rising because people become complacent and begin to think 'it won't affect me" and the financial hardship kicks in.

The science is well known and this virus is now embedded in society. Fatalities will continue for many more months until treatments and vaccines are found. In the meantime the Government (of whatever political leaning) need to keep people on-side but as the infection rate drops that will get harder and harder as more and more people 'relax'.

It would not surprise me if some controls were actually increased and made more stringent.

Good post, one minor observation, do you not think some of the increase in car use is down to a few more shops being opened, ie B&Q etc, and the advice on driving for exercise being relaxed.

 

[drdel]

Good post, one minor observation, do you not think some of the increase in car use is down to a few more shops being opened, ie B&Q etc, and the advice on driving for exercise being relaxed.

I suspect you're right. Its a bit of a chicken and egg. Shops open because people are about and they need to survive : people are about because shops are open so it must be OK. Glad I'm not an 'expert' any more !!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I suspect you're right. Its a bit of a chicken and egg. Shops open because people are about and they need to survive : people are about because shops are open so it must be OK. Glad I'm not an 'expert' any more !!

Fine line for the Government to walk, unfortunately some in society will always push it too far if given “wiggle” room.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Gove threatens to use the Isle of Wight as test area for lifting lockdown.
IOW folk say fine by us, so long as you keep the groccles out.
Ferry to run essential services only.

 

[chrisd]

Good post, one minor observation, do you not think some of the increase in car use is down to a few more shops being opened, ie B&Q etc, and the advice on driving for exercise being relaxed.

Spot on Paul, I wanted to do a few jobs in the house and popped to B&Q, when I arrived I was about 5th in the queue and when I left there was about 50 people. As I pass B&Q when I go to work it's easy to see that there are hardly any cars in their car park when closed