Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[SocketRocket]

I’m not interested in the slightest in the colour of the rosette that people are wearing currently. But I am concerned that people think that lessons can only be learned once the damage is done.

Frontline health workers are dying right now, every day. And I’d like to think that we can be learning lessons as we go. And if avoidable mistakes have been made then we need to act now. Not in 12 months. And I don’t care if it’s politicians, senior NHS staff or Doris the cleaner. There is an ongoing duty to protect lives. It doesn’t get put on hold whilst we’re just a bit busy.

Does anyone think all these people are not learning and adjusting procedure as they go along. I believe politicians, senior NHS staff and hopefully Doris are all doing their upmost to get us through this horrible situation and as such deserve our support. Yes, there will be lessons to be learned now and later but those lessons need to primarily be used in a way that makes us better and stronger, not as a finger pointing exercise.

 

[patricks148]

Well, yes, that's true, but the fact that we haven't got that ability is not anyone's fault. IIRC, the antibody test has only just been developed ( reliably) and doesn't function properly until the subject has been some while after being infected and cured.
So that one isn't a case of "not coordinating "
The contact/ trace app has just been developed in Australia and we haven't got one yet, I believe..
Your previous post does suggest a criticism of sluggishness by the government for not getting such initiatives underway sooner .Maybe you didn't intend that, and if you didn't I apologise, but testing without contact tracing is limited in its efficiency.
Testing you on Tuesday doesn't mean you aren't positive on Thursday.
Yes, it would tell you if positive a little while before you became aware( so you could isolate) but it did take some days for the result ( now improved, I believe)
It would, I agree, be useful to identify asymptomatics, but as SR says, that means testing most of the population.I don't think there are too many asymptotics around (who go through the whole process of infection and cure without symptoms. ). Not to justify mass testing.
Most infected people have symptoms and hopefully they would isolate.
The contact/trace app is a good bet at the moment, and a self testing antibody kit, if there is such a thing as that.
And , fingers crossed for the work at Oxford Uni.?

thats fair enough but why make the target then avoid owning up to not making it and trying to change the goal posts.

 

[2blue]

I know he disagrees with my political views as do I his, but I left school years ago and he doesn't still work in one! If anyone thinks the the subject isn't political they should just watch the press questions at 5pm or pop along to Facebook ?

Keep digging will yer... as I can still see your heed!! haha

 

[funkycoldmedina]

It would, I agree, be useful to identify asymptomatics, but as SR says, that means testing most of the population.I don't think there are too many asymptotics around (who go through the whole process of infection and cure without symptoms. ). Not to justify mass testing.

The reason the WHO said test test test is because extensive testing is at the heart of understanding any pandemic. The results are just as relevant if they are picking up positives, asymptomatics, negatives re-tests etc. The more data the epidemiologists have the better decisions can be made . The sluggishness on the scale up has meant none of the general population outwith of those admitted to hospital have been tested which now means we have to wait for reliable antibody test to be available before we can better understand better the % spread in the population.

 

[Old Skier]

wonder how they are going to explain how they have not managed the 100,000 people a day to be tested, on the BBC this morning the guy put ups that fig was not close to the target.

why lie or carry on bluffing a changeing the target, why not just say they got it wrong?

Turning round, the question should be, "The capacity was there, why wasn't it used". Earlier in the testing phase it was up to the NHS to submit those workers requiring testing for testing, never happened so early capacity was wasted.

There are serious questions to be asked in the future on the ability and suitability of some in the NHS to perform in the jobs they are in.

 

[bluewolf]

Does anyone think all these people are not learning and adjusting procedure as they go along. I believe politicians, senior NHS staff and hopefully Doris are all doing their upmost to get us through this horrible situation and as such deserve our support. Yes, there will be lessons to be learned now and later but those lessons need to primarily be used in a way that makes us better and stronger, not as a finger pointing exercise.

And the only way we’ll know that is by the Journalists asking the questions, and the people answering them being transparent in their responses.

What shouldn’t happen is that it is just blindly accepted that “everyone’s trying their best and we should just trust them”.

No, not everyone is fit for the role they currently hold, and of someone is doing a bad job then they should be removed and someone else given the responsibility, before another Nurse/Doctor/Paramedic dies.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

View attachment 30321
The general mood in the public seems to be counter to what people are feeling on here. Just another bit of interesting info, not trying to politicise, only offering it up for discussion.

No idea how but I'm somehow on the list for YouGov for questions covid related. I get a series of very short questions to answer online every couple of days. They are multiple choice questions and as you answer it gives you the % figure of what everyone has answered.

I'd say throughout this the numbers I'm seeing are largely supportive and sympathetic to the situation the government are in and their response to it. There is no sign at this point that the answers mirror the angst of our media towards the govt.

It's quite interesting doing it, the questions are cleverly simple and to the point. It's almost as if they do this for a living ?

 

[Old Skier]

No idea how but I'm somehow on the list for YouGov for questions covid related. I get a series of very short questions to answer online every couple of days. They are multiple choice questions and as you answer it gives you the % figure of what everyone has answered.

I'd say throughout this the numbers I'm seeing are largely supportive and sympathetic to the situation the government are in and their response to it. There is no sign at this point that the answers mirror the angst of our media towards the govt.

It's quite interesting doing it, the questions are cleverly simple and to the point. It's almost as if they do this for a living ?

Yep get them daily and the results are interesting to say the least.

 

[chrisd]

Keep digging will yer... as I can still see your heed!! haha

Not quite sure how I'm "digging" on a thread that was specifically setup to discuss the political views on coronavirus and you tell me NOT to bring politics into it - just thought you might be a little embarrassed to post here again so soon ??

 

[AmandaJR]

View attachment 30321
The general mood in the public seems to be counter to what people are feeling on here. Just another bit of interesting info, not trying to politicise, only offering it up for discussion.

In terms of journalists that's the opposite of what I've seen on Facebook.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The UK figures are now starting to look pretty serious now that the England totals are including care home deaths.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

In terms of journalists that's the opposite of what I've seen on Facebook.

These polls obviously have their flaws but the problem with social media is that the algorithms push similar articles and points of view so we end up in our own echo chambers only hearing supporting arguments for our own standpoints. It's only done this way to make people want to use the platforms more there's nothing sinister in it but it does make it dangerous for which ever side of the fence we sit on. We are losing the ability to see both sides of the argument in society.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The UK figures are now starting to look pretty serious now that the England totals are including care home deaths.

Absolutely agree but equally we may be comparing against countries that don't include them.

The numbers are horrible whatever but it doesn't necessarily mean we are an exception. Better that the numbers reflect the truth than things are hidden or manipulated.

 

[patricks148]

Turning round, the question should be, "The capacity was there, why wasn't it used". Earlier in the testing phase it was up to the NHS to submit those workers requiring testing for testing, never happened so early capacity was wasted.

There are serious questions to be asked in the future on the ability and suitability of some in the NHS to perform in the jobs they are in.

not wrong there, but its will be the Bosses that should carry the can, and what would happen there a Golden handshake, where if it were just some pleb making the same level of mistakes would be fired on the spot

 

[bluewolf]

In terms of journalists that's the opposite of what I've seen on Facebook.

Sorry Amanda. I did have a little laugh at that. I know it’s not what you meant, but I’m just picturing someone using Facebook as a method of gauging Public mood.
Sorry ?

 

[SocketRocket]

And the only way we’ll know that is by the Journalists asking the questions, and the people answering them being transparent in their responses.

What shouldn’t happen is that it is just blindly accepted that “everyone’s trying their best and we should just trust them”.

No, not everyone is fit for the role they currently hold, and of someone is doing a bad job then they should be removed and someone else given the responsibility, before another Nurse/Doctor/Paramedic dies.

When people are doing their jobs correctly those tasks are part of everyday management, why should we think it's not being done? Imagine a wartime situation (and fighting this virus is very similar in many ways) would we expect the military to be managing the day to day activities or should the Generals have to be paraded out each day and be questioned by the press to make Joe Public satisfied they are making all the correct decisions.

Regarding journalists, they're not asking questions on our behalf or representatives of the public they are doing it to sell news papers. OK, freedom of the press is a cornerstone of democracy but we put very well paid professionals into positions that allow our services to be run effectively, we cannot expect to be constantly checking if these people are competent In their roles. Later when there is time we can re visit, learn and make any structural changes.

 

[MegaSteve]

Explain yourself please.

I believe I have explained on several occasions... Whilst yourself and others prefer to deflect and continue to view the shortcomings of the current government in a blinkered fashion... The first priority of any government is the safety of the electorate... If that safety is being compromised then government should expect close scrutiny... Deflection of blame to its chosen agencies should be viewed as an indicator of poor/inadequate governance...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I am not comparing anything with anything........just looking at the number of deaths in the UK and wondering why there was a delay in recording care home deaths.
We were told follow the science, which told us 20,000 deaths. 200,000 if we do nothing.
It is clearly going to be more than double 20,000, so the science modal this governments is following is flawed.

 

[Hacker Khan]

These polls obviously have their flaws but the problem with social media is that the algorithms push similar articles and points of view so we end up in our own echo chambers only hearing supporting arguments for our own standpoints. It's only done this way to make people want to use the platforms more there's nothing sinister in it but it does make it dangerous for which ever side of the fence we sit on. We are losing the ability to see both sides of the argument in society.

Actually there is quite a lot of sinister things going on with Facebook , Google, Amazon, Microsoft et al (well Apple is better than most) as they are building up an extremely detailed picture of what you like, where you go, what you buy, what your health is like etc etc. Which they then monitize through things like targeted marketing. But we are now moving into behaviour modification where your behaviour is modified based on what they know about you. This can be anything from them telling you you need to go on a walk to pointing you towards specific outlets/restaurants. Or they are selling this data to insurance companies and your chance of getting insurance will decline based on your behaviour. But you are right in that they also tend to promote echo chambers, but a lot of that has always been done by the individual as well by through who they follow, which paper they read, which TV stations they get their news from etc.

 

[IanM]

I am not comparing anything with anything........just looking at the number of deaths in the UK and wondering why there was a delay in recording care home deaths.
We were told follow the science, which told us 20,000 deaths. 200,000 if we do nothing.
It is clearly going to be more than double 20,000, so the science modal this governments is following is flawed.

Yeah, they should have used the proper model from every time this happens! Therein lies the trouble.

Remove the political leanings and hindsight from the reporting and discussion, and what are you left with? Gratitude that we are not one of the folk stood at the lectern each evening.