Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[pendodave]

I think that outlook is not quite right, thats the opening up to quickly, look at Wales for example for the opposite and they haven't opened up as such, look at Devon, look at massive parts of England.

I fear we are losing context and our ability to assess risk and the effects of the above kind of articles/thinking.

As an example:-

Shropshire is 32nd on the list of areas in England(out of 150 I think), so pretty bad on that map and has just under 14 cases per 100,000.

That is 1 in 7,143 people, I would need to get up close and personal with every golf member in something like 10-12 golf clubs, to meet one person.

Okay lets quad it to make it a lot worse and read a lot worse than reality (for undetected and 2 week infectious period) it so 1 in 1785. I would need to get up close and personal with every golf member in a golf club in something like 3-4 golf clubs.

edit All fairly remote, so it needs to be track & trace, then people need to self isolate but the risk is fairly low of meeting someone and then catching it and then dying from it.

As a comparison:-

Think of how many people are going to die from cancer, as they have not been picked up early. I know plenty of people who have had it picked up early and survived due to early action. In April alone there was 120,000 less cancer referrals. Frightening figures for one month(will have to found out normal cancer rates detected from referrals)
Think of the million plus jobs that are going and going quickly, that will push people into poverty
Think of the million(s) that will be pushed into poverty due to earning less
Whereas if you are under 50, the chances of you catching it and then dying from it are really really low (or even 50-60 is low) [don't get me wrong, I don't want to catch and take the risk....)


We need to look at the big picture now and balance all these risks and bring policies into play. This story has only just started, unless a vaccine comes along and even then the story with regards to economic situation is bad.

Hopefully that makes sense.

You're right, but tragically it was also right 3 months ago. And equally obvious, sadly. Reason went out the window and no-one has seen it since.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

You're right, but tragically it was also right 3 months ago. And equally obvious, sadly. Reason went out the window and no-one has seen it since.

I personally wouldn't quite go as far as agree with that and say we didn't need some kind of lockdown 3 months ago. We could have tried to contained the spread much earlier, when I think back to the March budget and what was happening etc, I was like WTF the virus is riping though and they are having a laugh. Personally I think we should have locked down the country much much earlier and as people returned then locked them in hotels or like and policed it.(I suppose like New Zealand done but on a much bigger scale, who knows if that would have worked here. I'm not 100% convinced as we have to many fingers all over the place). We could then have opened up earlier.

History will certainly be an interesting read in years to come and opinions will evolve. I know I have read quite a few write ups over lockdowns and how ineffective they have been to contain the virus and that the virus spread is more a reflection on the underlying society and how they live their lifes and if caught early to contain.

I do worry over indoor spaces opening back up with pubs etc and the 1m plus. Hope I am worrying needlessly and would be really happy to be proved wrong, like I was wrong in the main with shops reopening, no second wave as yet, in fact cases continue to drop, Happy days.

 

[DanFST]

I personally wouldn't quite go as far as agree with that and say we didn't need some kind of lockdown 3 months ago.

I think the problem 3 months ago was it was so unkown. Treatment and testing has got better, we understand how the virus works better.

The problem with NZ (I agree I don't think it would have worked here), until there's a vaccine, they can't open up borders. Which just wouldn't work for our economy.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Rees Mogg telling absolute lies in the HoC whilst attacking Nicola Sturgeon.
What a low life, joining Johnson in a desperate attempt to make political advantage out of a medical pandemic.

They are not even savvy enough to realise that virtually every time they open their mouths they add thousands of additional votes to the independence movement.

 

[rulefan]

They are not even savvy enough to realise that virtually every time they open their mouths they add thousands of additional votes to the independence movement.

Is that a bad idea

 

[PNWokingham]

Rees Mogg telling absolute lies in the HoC whilst attacking Nicola Sturgeon.
What a low life, joining Johnson in a desperate attempt to make political advantage out of a medical pandemic.

They are not even savvy enough to realise that virtually every time they open their mouths they add thousands of additional votes to the independence movement.

i didn't see or hear it so please share with us what lies he was spouting?

 

[Hobbit]

i didn't see or hear it so please share with us what lies he was spouting?

He said Sturgeon wishes to build a metaphorical wall between England and Scotland. and compared her to another world leader who wishes to build a wall. He also (semi) quoted the PM, who said there is no border between England and Scotland.

Personally, I don't have a problem with her comments that suggested putting up travel restrictions across the border. We had weeks and weeks of it here, and from looking like the virus was running away rampant it slowed to a very decent level has been below 30k for several weeks. Crossing regional borders was stopped completely, and travelling between towns risked a fine. And what is the number in the UK now?

Forget the politics and the willy waving. If it saves lives, however unpalatable it might be politically, it should be done.

As for Mogg's flowery language, what a complete tool of a politician. He's another John Berscow, liking the sound of his own grandiose posturing for his fan base rather than adding anything positive to a difficult debate.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

i didn't see or hear it so please share with us what lies he was spouting?

Likened her to Trump with building a wall.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Is that a bad idea

No, it is clearly working as the polls show.
Just showing how dense he is.

 

[Old Skier]

Likened her to Trump with building a wall.

I thought that was an English idea a while back On a serious note, how could it be policed

 

[Deleted member 27823]

I thought that was an English idea a while back On a serious note, how could it be policed

No, it was your Italian overlords.

 

[DanFST]

No, it is clearly working as the polls show.
Just showing how dense he is.

The irony is outstanding. Kudos.

 

[road2ruin]

Article by Toby Young (Spectator) with his views on the Leicester lockdown

https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/06/30/latest-news-64/

 

[Hacker Khan]

Article by Toby Young (Spectator) with his views on the Leicester lockdown

https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/06/30/latest-news-64/

Has the last bastion of free speech proclaimed on this matter. Let me guess, it's a travesty, against our freedom and liberty, it's mostly impacting the poor anyway so why should we care, we didn't defeat the Germans in WW2 to have to wear face masks and be prevented from going to Wetherspoons at lunchtime for a pint of cheap ale that is hours away from exceeding its sell by date.

 

[road2ruin]

Has the last bastion of free speech proclaimed on this matter. Let me guess, it's a travesty, against our freedom and liberty, it's mostly impacting the poor anyway so why should we care, we didn't defeat the Germans in WW2 to have to wear face masks and be prevented from going to Wetherspoons at lunchtime for a pint of cheap ale that is hours away from exceeding its sell by date.

No, not really, it just givens an alternative viewpoint. One that suggests that the lockdown is a disproportionate response given the numbers and the likely number of lives saved (based on numbers) just doesn’t stack up with the impact it’ll have on those least at risk.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Bullet point #1 in government coronavirus website is still ‘stay at home as much as possible’. And I 100% understand that.

But why is that piece of advice still there - and #1 piece of advice at that - given all the relaxation measures currently applied.

Now I know I am easily confused but I am confused by the contradiction it clearly gives rise to as surely it conflicts completely with a lot of what the government tells me I can do today - even more so from the tomorrow.

I can’t go to the pub and go non-essential shopping and stay at home as much as possible as I don’t need to do either of the former.

 

[Old Skier]

Bullet point #1 in government coronavirus website is still ‘stay at home as much as possible’. And I 100% understand that.

But why is that piece of advice still there - and #1 piece of advice at that - given all the relaxation measures currently applied.

Now I know I am easily confused but I am confused by the contradiction it clearly gives rise to as surely it conflicts completely with a lot of what the government tells me I can do today - even more so from the tomorrow.

I can’t go to the pub and shopping and stay at home as much as possible as I don’t need to do either of the former.

Your outdoing yourself or have completely lost your ability to use common sense. Your like the landlord complaining that the government have allowed pubs to open “FROM” 4 July. It’s not compulsory.

 

[Old Skier]

No, it was your Italian overlords.

Not mine, Wales was relatively free of pizza and pasta until now.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Your outdoing yourself or have completely lost your ability to use common sense. Your like the landlord complaining that the government have allowed pubs to open “FROM” 4 July. It’s not compulsory.

No - I am looking at the government website and that tells me up front that I should stay at home as much as possible.

There is much I can do today that the government tells me I can do that is not essential and therefore is not following guideline #1 on the govs coronavirus guidelines Website.

But what a surprise - usual suspects choose to fail to see the contradiction in what the government is telling us and rationalise it away as this government does no wrong - well actually they don’t - rather choosing to attack the messenger. Let’s see if it’s still there tomorrow.

 

[Hacker Khan]

No, not really, it just givens an alternative viewpoint. One that suggests that the lockdown is a disproportionate response given the numbers and the likely number of lives saved (based on numbers) just doesn’t stack up with the impact it’ll have on those least at risk.

Based on his interpretation of the no doubt selective statistics and sources he has chosen to use. And I'm not saying he is the only one using selective stats as everyone does it to prove a point. However in this case, as the government set the rules then the decision is based on the stats they use.