Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree with what you say about sorting it out in these crisis times. But is there not a question of transition time here?
In normal times , it was as described. Government give the money and highly paid Trusts officials do the actual acquiring etc.
Then the pandemic strikes. Unprecedented requirements by everybody, and when I say everybody, I include all health services of all affected Nations.
So it sooner or later becomes apparent that some Trusts have enough PPE and some haven't and so the Government, as you say, should step in.
But they can't wave a wand and it all be right overnight. With all the logistics problems they have in other disciplines, it is inevitable that some will be lacking. I really believe that in the background they are trying to correct the shortcomings. I cannot believe there is a shrug of the shoulders saying "tough" , about the situation.
It needs someone with a hatred of red tape, and a healthy disrespect of "how it is usually done" and an "action this day" mentality.
I said in an earlier post that it shouldn't be too hard to use those attributes where some Trusts have too much and others not enough , to identify those Trusts and so, rob Peter to give to Paul -in hours , let alone days.
And , yes, that is the responsibility of government NOW. It is in their interests to tell us exactly how they are addressing this. And the Country's, and it should be a priority to do so.

I agree, I’m also not expecting anyone to wave a magic wand and sort it overnight, I firmly believe the Government are doing the best they can, but for some reason (which may be beyond their control) the PPE situation seems to be a constant thorn in their side.

 

[PJ87]

Schools are the same.

Public private partnerships were and still are a disaster

We lost our in house maintaince to two private companies. Metronet and tube lines

Both went bust

Both were bought back in house by tfl

Lots of money wasted

Lots of people pensions mucked around with (guy my age we started same year his pension is 5 years to my 15 now)

All well and good having contracts in place but half the time their not met.

Private sector have no place in public services. Need to be run for the public not for profit to shareholders

However need better management throughout aswell

 

[MegaSteve]

Without wanting to sound pedantic, dont the Government instruct Civil Servants to sort these things out? Although instructing people to do something doesnt mean its possible to do it.

I thought there had been a recent consensus of opinion that we didn't wish to be subject to the influence of unelected unaccountable bureaucracy... Are you now advocating it should be ok for our elected government to discharge its responsibilities to unelected unaccountable bureaucrats?

 

[MegaSteve]

Indeed. So some trusts get it right but others don't. Is that the fault of the government?

Yes... Because it remains responsible for the agencies it appoints to be getting it right...

 

[Ethan]

Which, from what my friends in HT management tell me I think, are that the vast majority of Trusts nationwide have not had issues but, unfortunately that's not frightening enough news.

The majority of Trusts may not admit to problems, but an awful lot, too many, doctors and nurses are having issues with PPE. Note also that the Govt engineered the downgrading of Covid from being a High Consequence Infectious Disease in late March which allowed a downgrade in PPE requirements. If you can't increase supply to meet the regulations, reduce the regulations to meet the supply, I suppose.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

This is literally his job and if private organisations have had to step in something is seriously wrong!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1255256404207812611

 

[Hobbit]

This is literally his job and if private organisations have had to step in something is seriously wrong!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1255256404207812611

Or maybe the DM just wanted to help out in some way. You don't have to spin it.... just an alternative thought. I just see it as someone/organisation wanting to help out in any way.

Or alternatively, we could cynically say that its the DM just chasing good copy and a headline. There's a few ways to spin it depending on whatever you fancy.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Or maybe the DM just wanted to help out in some way. You don't have to spin it.... just an alternative thought. I just see it as someone/organisation wanting to help out in any way.

Or alternatively, we could cynically say that its the DM just chasing good copy and a headline. There's a few ways to spin it depending on whatever you fancy.

Well done the DM, my comment is aimed at Hancock and him heaping praise on them.

 

[Wolf]

Well done the DM, my comment is aimed at Hancock and him heaping praise on them.

But why shouldn't he praise them if this is something they have done genuinely to help the nation. Being the DM that's a big IF, but where is the problem with Hancock, Boris or even any other political representative from any party giving praise if it is something that helps the nation.

Its easy to spin they shouldn't have to its his job but seems as a nation now rather than see something as help we see it as something to slate someone else for.

 

[Hobbit]

Well done the DM, my comment is aimed at Hancock and him heaping praise on them.

But isn't that a damned if he does and damned if he doesn't? As Health Minister he should acknowledge those that help him - at the very least its a common courtesy. Maybe your bias is showing through... maybe I'm missing exactly what you mean. Tbh, I can't see what you're driving at.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Nobody should need to “step up” and buy PPE for the NHS, the Government should be supplying all the PPE the NHS needs.

If any other organisation wants to do “their bit” find other areas to help, ie, help local charities who are supporting foodbanks or help the volunteers who are driving “meals on wheels” services in their own vehicles etc.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

But isn't that a damned if he does and damned if he doesn't? As Health Minister he should acknowledge those that help him - at the very least its a common courtesy. Maybe your bias is showing through... maybe I'm missing exactly what you mean. Tbh, I can't see what you're driving at.

For the record I’d be just annoyed with any Health Secretary regardless of Party allegiance.

But it proves again that posters can’t criticise a Government Minister without some questioning the poster’s political slant and reading more in to it than is intended.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Nobody should need to “step up” and buy PPE for the NHS, the Government should be supplying all the PPE the NHS needs.

If any other organisation wants to do “their bit” find other areas to help, ie, help local charities who are supporting foodbanks or help the volunteers who are driving “meals on wheels” services in their own vehicles etc.

Re the bold bit above, do you mean the Govt should be supply the money or actually purchasing the PPE themselves?

 

[SocketRocket]

I just cant see what's wrong with him thanking them. They may have been able to find a supply of PPE that had been missed by others, should they be told to take it back?

 

[Wolf]

Nobody should need to “step up” and buy PPE for the NHS, the Government should be supplying all the PPE the NHS needs.

If any other organisation wants to do “their bit” find other areas to help, ie, help local charities who are supporting foodbanks or help the volunteers who are driving “meals on wheels” services in their own vehicles etc.

No your right the NHS should be buying it themselves with the government provided money. That's how the NHS is set up to procure it's own goods through its logistics channel's. It is not government job to provide the actual items, it is their job to provide the money for them and that is what they're doing.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Re the bold bit above, do you mean the Govt should be supply the money or actually purchasing the PPE themselves?

Taking responsibility for both, it shouldn’t need outside agencies to do their job and embarrass them.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

No your right the NHS should be buying it themselves with the government provided money. That's how the NHS is set up to procure it's own goods through its logistics channel's. It is not government job to provide the actual items, it is their job to provide the money for them and that is what they're doing.

I’m not going over old ground, we had this yesterday, the Government responsibility does not stop at the handing over of the money.

Why have the MOD become involved? Is it possible the NHS aren’t coping?

 

[Hobbit]

Nobody should need to “step up” and buy PPE for the NHS, the Government should be supplying all the PPE the NHS needs.

If any other organisation wants to do “their bit” find other areas to help, ie, help local charities who are supporting foodbanks or help the volunteers who are driving “meals on wheels” services in their own vehicles etc.

You could apply your logic to foodbanks etc, there shouldn't be a need to "step up."

There's undoubtedly some truth to be found out in all of this. Yesterday I spoke to a friend, again, that is an ITU sister. I, again(3 times now), asked about PPE. And, again, she said there's no problem with stock. She did say that a few of the staff get a bee in their bonnet about it when they're down to a couple of boxes of gowns but she reminds them that they always run with only a box or 2 in stock, and they have always got their stock on time. Maybe the hospital she works at is well run, or maybe the hype we hear is just hype. Or maybe the truth is somewhere in between.

We've also heard Fish say that he and his fellow couriers have been dropping PPE off at places where the last drop-off of PPE is still sitting there.

We'll all find out one day soon about the truth behind it all. Until then let's hope everything continues to go the right way.

 

[Wolf]

I’m not going over old ground, we had this yesterday, the Government responsibility does not stop at the handing over of the money.

But you are going over it by continuing to post its the government fault and responsibility.

The government is responsible for providing the money trusts are responsible for their own procurement as they are the ones on the ground with the inventory of what they have and need. Are they then ultimately responsible for investigation of failures by trusts yes they are, but now isn't the time to investigate now is time to fund the trusts and trust our hospitals to do what's right by staff and patients.

 

[SocketRocket]

I thought there had been a recent consensus of opinion that we didn't wish to be subject to the influence of unelected unaccountable bureaucracy... Are you now advocating it should be ok for our elected government to discharge its responsibilities to unelected unaccountable bureaucrats?

My post suggested the GOVERNMENT instruct Civil Servants to sort things out so how can you turn that around to me saying unelected unaccountable bureaucrats are being given responsibility. The clue in my post was 'Government instruct' or do we expect Matt Hancock to go out and do it all on his own.