Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[AmandaJR]

What have I got to do with the BBC and continual criticism of the BBC that I simply consider unmerited. If I want to hear something on any news bulletin that I disagree with so that I can complain about the broadcaster then I am sure I can. But that is not how I listen to the news.

Excuse me but it's not how I listen to the news either. I attempt to make the best job at finding out the news from a trusted, non-biased, impartial public broadcaster. If they don't, imo, step up to the mark then I will, and will continue to, call them out on it. For me it's a big part of why I feel I pay my license fee.

Just because my views are likely to be polar opposite to yours does not make them wrong. Irritated as you may be by the tedious nature of them, they are mine and I'll continue to make them. I don't tell you you're wrong, or you're being tedious with your constant mentioning of something...I'd be grateful if you could do me the same courtesy.

Now you've really peed me off.

 

[Hobbit]

Cheers Bri, as I put above I have no idea of the accuracy of either posts.

As to the ordering or problems with PPE and NHS requirements I have no issue with the Government and stock levels prior to this pandemic, were I do hold the Government to account is when the situation has needed resolving and when and where they choose to step in.

There have been some amazing financial initiatives all under the Government’s gift, they have helped out with Logistics by mobilizing the Armed Forces were required, I also believe they could possibly have stepped in and clarified the PPE situation and again stopped the media in its tracks.

The govt is responsible for the mgt structure of the NHS and, ultimately, Hancock is the boss. It could be argued that the structure is ok for the day-2-day running of the NHS. However, they know from the exercise carried out in 2016 the NHS didn't do well in the pandemic resilience exercise. There will be some mud to fling around, and as long as its justified, fine. But as Sajid Javid said in the Guardian article, the media need to behave responsibly too.

 

[Foxholer]

...
It’s ok blaming the media on this, but the Government do have the ability to stop these stories dead in their tracks or a cynic could say while the media are distracted by a non-story they are missing the real stories.

A fairly common practice where the relationship between governments and 'the Press' is combative!
And that applies to both 'left' and 'right' wing governments!
Part of 'the Press's' quite legitimate role - at least in a Democracy - is to challenge and probe government actions, in order to highlight/prevent/correct abuse, inefficiency and plain blunders! Generally. it works pretty well in UK, albeit rather slowly.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I've not read through this thread as I'm a bit late to the party but I've seen and heard lots of criticism of the government particularly around the lack of PPE.

I found this link below, the Govt isn't responsible for the procurement, they are responsible for providing the money. The NHS is responsible for the procurement of services and equipment.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/nhs-procurement

 

[drdel]

Just for a bit of history and accuracy, SCCL was set up to take back in-house NHS Supply Chain. NHS Supply Chain was a DHL owned subsidiary set up during Tony Blair's Labour Govt, i.e. Labour privatised yet another part of the NHS - they were good at it back then. NHS Supply Chain(DHL) took a premium from each Trust for every deal they sourced and 2 premiums from every supplier, one being a percentage of the deal and a one-off admin fee to be on the preferred supplier list - funnily enough this one-off fee was required every year, irrespective of whether or not the company sold anything to the NHS that year.

SCCL is not govt owned, it is state owned, and is back to being a part(dept) of the NHS. Who'd have thought the Tories would be in to Nationalisation!

To a large extent it is staffed by NHS employees who were TUP'd across to DHL, when good old Tony and Labour sold them off, and TUP'd back to the NHS in the SCCL dept.

Good old Tony sold off kidney dialysis units to a Canadian Company called Northern Renal, and a good number of orthopaedic surgery units to a South African Company, whose name deserts me at present. One of those surgical units was actually on the Trafford General Hospital site, the site of the very first NHS hospital - talk about slap in the face/betrayal!

In the last year of DHL's management of procurement the NHS spent £18bn, of which DHL charged the Trusts 4% = £720m, and there's now a £500m cross-charge for services rendered. A saving of £220m, and people think that's a bad thing? Really? Get a flipping grip!

As for the shortage of PPE; its up to the NHS to order it. Its not a govt function. If there's a shortage, ask the NHS why it wasn't ordered.

Not too many moons ago I used to do corporate lectures on supply chain vulnerability and when just-in-time logistics was ideal and when it brought risks. Not surprisingly most CEO's agreed and were concerned about their continuity planning but thought it was an expense someone else in the supply chain should make. The interesting bit is NHS (pre-DHL) logistics management were involved: change of staff and in come the new management and make the same mistakes. I'd dearly love to ring them up and say "Told you so!" but they've retired.

 

[Hacker Khan]

An interesting view that I've just read on a popular social media site, not necessarily my view as none of us will ever know the full ins and outs, but a good read nevertheless

GOVERNMENT FAILURE TO ORDER EQUIPMENT FOR THE COVID PANDEMIC
- A REALITY CHECK..

Let's get this in perspective for the crayon eaters who are set on pulling down the government.
Firstly, THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT ORDER EQUIPMENT for the NHS, they supply the money. The MANAGERS of the NHS itself are the procurement sources. Also it’s not the government that deals with the logistics for the NHS, it's, yes you've guessed it, it’s the NHS itself.
Not those on the front line, I think we all have the utmost respect for the Doctors, Nurses and care staff putting their lives on the line on a daily basis, doing their jobs under extreme pressure. It's more the overfed NHS executives and management

Two years ago there was a major exercise to ascertain if the country was prepared for a possible pandemic, the government did NOT run that exercise, the NHS did, during which they used their fantastic line "we can flex", so they were supposedly in a good place, add to that now Brexit with all the stockpiles that we had, they sat there and told the government “we are OK.”
Did these MANAGERS then pre-empt the 4 weeks pipeline ordering (that's how long it takes a container ship to come from...CHINA!)?.... So how did we end up in this lack of equipment situation? Well, they stopped ordering from local sources .... probably a big mistake, all their eggs in one basket, who did that? Not the government, but the NHS procurement office!
We have care homes screaming out for PPE but shouting at the government... Oh wait a minute....the majority of the care homes are PRIVATE business's, 84% to be exact. It is not the responsibility of the government to order PPE for private care homes, the remaining care homes are COUNCIL led, therefore whichever political banner they are under, it is down to them.
There are people hiding behind and blaming the government, when in reality it is those MANAGERS who have ownership and who have messed up.
Not to worry though...our wonderfully nonpartisan journalists and crayon munching joe public who believe the tripe that they publish continue to bash the government.
The real genuinely caring public knows that our media are crap in almost every quarter and the muppets that chuck the stones from the sidelines, you know the ones that are armchair virologist/strategy professionals who could do oh so much better...NOT.
The government has probably made some mistakes over recent weeks, but not as many as the media would have you believe. Instead of trying to pull this country together the media seems to seek to divide...we really don't need this at this crucial time, so be careful in believing what you’re hearing from our biased mainstream media and the gutter press and the armchair specialists. We need to get through this and your incessant squeaking and whinging is nothing short of oxygen thievery.
Let's get through this and beat this, together, as it is not over yet, not by a long chalk.

Very Trumpesque if that's peoples thing.

 

[Beezerk]

I've not read through this thread as I'm a bit late to the party but I've seen and heard lots of criticism of the government particularly around the lack of PPE.

I found this link below, the Govt isn't responsible for the procurement, they are responsible for providing the money. The NHS is responsible for the procurement of services and equipment.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/nhs-procurement

That got mentioned a week or so ago, maybe in another thread but it seems to have been conveniently forgotten about.

 

[MegaSteve]

I've not read through this thread as I'm a bit late to the party but I've seen and heard lots of criticism of the government particularly around the lack of PPE.

I found this link below, the Govt isn't responsible for the procurement, they are responsible for providing the money. The NHS is responsible for the procurement of services and equipment.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/nhs-procurement

As the elected body, governments first responsibility is looking after the safety and best interests of the electorate... It cannot sub out that responsibility...

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

As the elected body, governments first responsibility is looking after the safety and best interests of the electorate... It cannot sub out that responsibility...

I agree but surely it has done that by providing the necessary funding to the experts who work out what is required? I wouldn't expect an MP to tell a qualified professional what to do.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Excuse me but it's not how I listen to the news either. I attempt to make the best job at finding out the news from a trusted, non-biased, impartial public broadcaster. If they don't, imo, step up to the mark then I will, and will continue to, call them out on it. For me it's a big part of why I feel I pay my license fee.

Just because my views are likely to be polar opposite to yours does not make them wrong. Irritated as you may be by the tedious nature of them, they are mine and I'll continue to make them. I don't tell you you're wrong, or you're being tedious with your constant mentioning of something...I'd be grateful if you could do me the same courtesy.

Now you've really peed me off.

I really didn't want to pee you off...

I'm simply suggesting that in my experience all broadcast news outlets are reporting things in pretty much the same way - with some being a bit more sensational and critical than others (and I don't class the BBC as being one that is particularly sensational and critical). Sometimes the language can be a bit shoddy or ambiguous - but as far as I can make out that's not that often.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree but surely it has done that by providing the necessary funding to the experts who work out what is required? I wouldn't expect an MP to tell a qualified professional what to do.

And if a test of the NHS and government response to, and ability to cope with, a pandemic shows that we fail badly? Is it not then government's responsibility to provide the necessary funding to the NHS and trusts to get their act in gear, and then to monitor on a continuous basis that the NHS and trusts are doing just that and that they are then maintaining their readiness and ability to cope? Did the government do that following the 2016 test? Will all be considered in the final reckoning.

 

[Old Skier]

IMO it all went to pot with the "need" to have 24 hour news programs. There isn't that much news. We have now got people not reporting news but having to make the news. Reporters have got idle and will "report" on anything without any fact checking or validation. They continue to try and "make" the story.

 

[Hobbit]

IMO it all went to pot with the "need" to have 24 hour news programs. There isn't that much news. We have now got people not reporting news but having to make the news. Reporters have got idle and will "report" on anything without any fact checking or validation. They continue to try and "make" the story.

My big gripe is the editorial they spin on it. Give me the news, not an opinion of it.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Is it not then government's responsibility to provide the necessary funding to the NHS

I've not heard or read any reports that the Govt has failed to provide the necessary funding, however that doesn't mean they have or have not.

 

[Old Skier]

And if a test of the NHS and government response to, and ability to cope with, a pandemic shows that we fail badly? Is it not then government's responsibility to provide the necessary funding to the NHS and trusts to get their act in gear, and then to monitor on a continuous basis that the NHS and trusts are doing just that and that they are then maintaining their readiness and ability to cope? Did the government do that following the 2016 test? Will all be considered in the final reckoning.

Funding will be an issue in any of the public sector departments - it's the way of the world and simple economics. It's up to those within the departments that get paid very good salaries to priorities where the money is spent.

 

[Old Skier]

Massive increase in who can be tested "if they are showing symptoms " of the virus.

 

[MegaSteve]

I agree but surely it has done that by providing the necessary funding to the experts who work out what is required? I wouldn't expect an MP to tell a qualified professional what to do.

If by selecting the correct 'experts', to provide the necessary funding to, government expects the 'reward' of re-election on the back of good delivery of service... If its chosen 'experts' come up short, it should expect close scrutiny...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I've not read through this thread as I'm a bit late to the party but I've seen and heard lots of criticism of the government particularly around the lack of PPE.

I found this link below, the Govt isn't responsible for the procurement, they are responsible for providing the money. The NHS is responsible for the procurement of services and equipment.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/nhs-procurement

Hang on a minute, nobody is disputing who has responsibility for NHS procurement during normal times, these are not normal times and we have heard, read, listened to the horror stories (true or not) over PPE, we’ve been told about trusts who are better than other trusts at sorting their act out or having surplus while other trusts were running out.

So, in these extraordinary times, who are the one body can that can/could step up, find out the true picture and if need be, sort it out and pull it all together? The Government, that’s who, they have put stepped up on 99% of what is required, got a grip and told people what is to be done.

Why has the PPE question/saga dragged on? Only the Government can give that answer imo, continually posting links on the NHS Supply Chain and how it works in normal times is irrelevant, it’s the here and now that’s needs sorting.

 

[SocketRocket]

Hang on a minute, nobody is disputing who has responsibility for NHS procurement during normal times, these are not normal times and we have heard, read, listened to the horror stories (true or not) over PPE, we’ve been told about trusts who are better than other trusts at sorting their act out or having surplus while other trusts were running out.

So, in these extraordinary times, who are the one body can that can/could step up, find out the true picture and if need be, sort it out and pull it all together? The Government, that’s who, they have put stepped up on 99% of what is required, got a grip and told people what is to be done.

Why has the PPE question/saga dragged on? Only the Government can give that answer imo, continually posting links on the NHS Supply Chain and how it works in normal times is irrelevant, it’s the here and now that’s needs sorting.

Without wanting to sound pedantic, dont the Government instruct Civil Servants to sort these things out? Although instructing people to do something doesnt mean its possible to do it.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Hang on a minute, nobody is disputing who has responsibility for NHS procurement during normal times, these are not normal times and we have heard, read, listened to the horror stories (true or not) over PPE, we’ve been told about trusts who are better than other trusts at sorting their act out or having surplus while other trusts were running out.

So, in these extraordinary times, who are the one body can that can/could step up, find out the true picture and if need be, sort it out and pull it all together? The Government, that’s who, they have put stepped up on 99% of what is required, got a grip and told people what is to be done.

Why has the PPE question/saga dragged on? Only the Government can give that answer imo, continually posting links on the NHS Supply Chain and how it works in normal times is irrelevant, it’s the here and now that’s needs sorting.

The procedure for procurement doesn't change just because we are in an abnormal situation. The government has played its part by supplying the necessary funding. It is down to the NHS to use the money correctly and purchase the required PPE.