Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Hobbit]

Get that, but that must be balanced out by savings due to advanced keyhole surgery and much quicker recovery periods.
Things like knee and hip reconstruction used to take months of recovery. My Missus had two major operations three years ago and in both cases was out of hospital in a few days.
Childbirth is sometimes a one day hospital visit, as we were surprised to hear from my niece

Just a quick one D. Far from making savings because stays are shorter, when your Missis left hospital someone else will have been in that bed. Operating theatres and maternity wards are as busy, if not busier, than they've ever been. More operations per day = more costs. And some of the recovery costs have been pushed out to the Community Trusts, as GP's and District Nurses play a bigger part in recovery.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Exactly right re the committee. It is an overwhelming argument. - would more than a dozen scientific people, at the top of their profession, all, without one dissension, be influenced by Cummings, a PR man, whom nearly all journalists want to "bring down". Any one of the committee threatened or upset by him could go to the Media, and bring him down, big time.
Yet the anti - government here see him as some sort of Caligula or Rasputin.!

Who said all these “experts” are, in your words “more than a dozen scientific people, at the top of their profession” are they actually that or would these so called anti-government posters, as you called them, be right in asking you if you are so pro-government you believe everything the government tells you?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Just a quick one D. Far from making savings because stays are shorter, when your Missis left hospital someone else will have been in that bed. Operating theatres and maternity wards are as busy, if not busier, than they've ever been. More operations per day = more costs. And some of the recovery costs have been pushed out to the Community Trusts, as GP's and District Nurses play a bigger part in recovery.

I naturally get the growing population thing, but a growing population also equals a bigger tax take.

 

[SocketRocket]

I naturally get the growing population thing, but a growing population also equals a bigger tax take.

In that case we must be rolling in dosh.

 

[Hobbit]

Sounds weird Bri (coming from me) but my only interest in this SAGE make-up is to why it needs to be secret and identities protected, ie, are they the “right” experts? Sadly the term experts is banded around and everyone is simply meant to nod their head and accept it.
Experts have been wrong in the past and have caused Governments problems.

Its a tough one. Here's an off the cuff thought. Can you imagine the swarms of media being camped outside the houses of the 'experts,' looking for that exclusive quote or delivering a question designed to trip up one of the scientists? It would be mental. I think keeping them anonymised is the right thing to do.

As for the minutes of the meetings, how many would understand the detail? Do I want to read an editorialised version that has a Times/Independent/Guardian/Mirror/Express etc slant?

As for nodding and accepting. Held to account in a constructive way, yes. But I'll come back to something I posted previously. Does anyone seriously think the Tory Party/govt will prejudice its future by doing the wrong things? Get this wrong and the Labour Party, the media and the electorate will never ever forgive them. This would be more than a little screw up, it would be terminal for the party.

 

[rudebhoy]

It does make you wonder at times what's going on. A week ago the press were saying we were going to run out of PPE any day now and even if the delivery turned up from Turkey it would only last three days. Now I cant say I've heard anything about PPE for three or four days. What's changed, surely by the scare stories we should have run out by the week end.

Leftie rag still banging on about PPE shortages this morning. Don't they know it's good news week?

 

[SocketRocket]

*Thread Daily Roundup*
Government cant manage the situation and only care about their rich mates.
Medical and Scientific experts are easily led and make similar errors to the Government.
The press are doing a great job repeating the same old questions.
Any posts in support of the government are biased.
A few posters on here could run the country and manage the Covid Pandemic better.

 

[SocketRocket]

Leftie rag still banging on about PPE shortages this morning. Don't they know it's good news week?

View attachment 30296

But it's the DM, has to be lies.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Its a tough one. Here's an off the cuff thought. Can you imagine the swarms of media being camped outside the houses of the 'experts,' looking for that exclusive quote or delivering a question designed to trip up one of the scientists? It would be mental. I think keeping them anonymised is the right thing to do.

As for the minutes of the meetings, how many would understand the detail? Do I want to read an editorialised version that has a Times/Independent/Guardian/Mirror/Express etc slant?

As for nodding and accepting. Held to account in a constructive way, yes. But I'll come back to something I posted previously. Does anyone seriously think the Tory Party/govt will prejudice its future by doing the wrong things? Get this wrong and the Labour Party, the media and the electorate will never ever forgive them. This would be more than a little screw up, it would be terminal for the party.

To be honest though Bri, I’ve not once criticised the Government during this crisis, yes I have questions, but those questions I am happy to leave to people far more intelligent than I.

What if there are other “experts” out there who could understand the minutes and maybe spot a flaw or add quality to the SAGE?

It’s not the fact that the tory party/government may purposely prejudice its future by doing things wrong, it’s more the fact they may be being badly advised or not getting the latest information due to their prejudices and I’d be happy to for them to change their plans on a daily basis if it is proved to be in OUR best interests.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

To be honest though Bri, I’ve not once criticised the Government during this crisis, yes I have questions, but those questions I am happy to leave to people far more intelligent than I.

What if there are other “experts” out there who could understand the minutes and maybe spot a flaw or add quality to the SAGE?

It’s not the fact that the tory party/government may purposely prejudice its future by doing things wrong, it’s more the fact they may be being badly advised or not getting the latest information due to their prejudices and I’d be happy to for them to change their plans on a daily basis if it is proved to be in OUR best interests.

But isn't that the problem?

We none of us know who are the "right" experts and so many of those now commenting seem to have an axe to grind.

I read the piece from the Guardian which you referenced and found it thought provoking.

But then I did some background checking on Prof Costello and found him to be consistently critical of the Government and very pro-WHO whose actions themselves have been called into question by many.

End result? Another poor bloody member of the public who doesn't know if our political masters are receiving the right advice and from the right people.

I suppose that on this one we have got to go with what we got!

(But ask plenty of questions afterwards).?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's as if the BBC get stuck on a subject and keep going despite what else might be happening. Mind you if anyone ever watches Points of View then basically the answer to every criticism is "we're right, you're wrong".

So they keep banging on about the plan to come out of lockdown and seem to have left PPE for now despite one of their own programmes highlighting decisions that require serious questioning. Panorama "understands" doesn't mean it's fact but ministers need to be questioned and pushed. This morning they had a minister on (can't recall her name/title but something to do with social care I think) and asked her about this allegation and she talked about the current situation, avoided the question, and wasn't really pushed. For the first time I'm thinking Louise was justified to interrupt and get at her but she didn't.

I've really lost faith in our public service broadcaster to be balanced, informative and factual.

You really, really need to watch and listen to other broadcast news outlets and then tell us that the BBC is in fact less balanced, informative or factual than they . Because the continual battering of the BBC is IMO unmerited and can quite frankly become tiresome. Just listen to some of the commentators and news presenters on ITN and on Sky News - especially when reviewing the papers...listen to some of the presenters on LBC - then tell me BBC is unbalanced and uninformative.

Some may not like daily reporting of problems with PPE supply and testing as they feel it might reflect badly on the government - but these are actually two of the absolutely most important issues of each and every day at the moment. There is probably little of greater importance than these two topics other than the number of deaths and numbers of infected - yet when these numbers are reported the BBC is accused of obsessing over numbers...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

But isn't that the problem?

We none of us know who are the "right" experts and so many of those now commenting seem to have an axe to grind.

I read the piece from the Guardian which you referenced and found it thought provoking.

But then I did some background checking on Prof Costello and found him to be consistently critical of the Government and very pro-WHO whose actions themselves have been called into question by many.

End result? Another poor bloody member of the public who doesn't know if our political masters are receiving the right advice and from the right people.

I suppose that on this one we have got to go with what we got!

(But ask plenty of questions afterwards).?

Again though mate, what’s the issue with asking questions during the crisis? Not every question is a criticism and afterwards maybe too late.
What if a question helps?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

You really, really need to watch and listen to other broadcast news outlets and then tell us that the BBC is in fact less balanced, informative or factual than they . Because the continual battering of the BBC is IMO unmerited and can quite frankly become tiresome.

Do you truly not see the irony in your last sentence?

If not I suggest that you read again many of your own posts, particularly on Brexit.

 

[SocketRocket]

Just read a release that said this:
Coronavirus ‘currently eliminated’ in New Zealand

It then goes on to say : "There were just five new Covid-19 cases reported on Monday"
maybe 'virtually' would have been better.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Again though mate, what’s the issue with asking questions during the crisis? Not every question is a criticism and afterwards maybe too late.
What if a question helps?

I don't have a problem with questions being asked.

Where I do have an issue is the same bloody question being asked over and over (such as on lockdown) after it has been answered and in the hope of someone tripping up by committing to a target.

Also where the journalist seems to have reached a conclusion yet the situation is constantly evolving.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Do you truly not see the irony in your last sentence?

If not I suggest that you read again many of your own posts, particularly on Brexit.

Ah yes - I thought I'd have the personal comeback...but I decided to post it in any case. Comparing me with the BBC is not exactly comparing like with like is it - but hey.

And so let me chuck back into the pot the 1billion pieces of PPE the government was telling us they'd delivered. Yes I whanged on about wondering what that 1bn comprised of until I could no longer be bothered asking the question as I was told I was being tedious - and why need I know...well...in the interests of the clarity and honesty that Johnson is promising...

 

[AmandaJR]

You really, really need to watch and listen to other broadcast news outlets and then tell us that the BBC is in fact less balanced, informative or factual than they . Because the continual battering of the BBC is IMO unmerited and can quite frankly become tiresome. Just listen to some of the commentators and news presenters on ITN and on Sky News - especially when reviewing the papers...listen to some of the presenters on LBC - then tell me BBC is unbalanced and uninformative.

Some may not like daily reporting of problems with PPE supply and testing as they feel it might reflect badly on the government - but these are actually two of the absolutely most important issues of each and every day at the moment. There is probably little of greater importance than these two topics other than the number of deaths and numbers of infected - yet when these numbers are reported the BBC is accused of obsessing over numbers...

Why? I'm not drawing a comparison of the BBC versus others rather than commenting on what the BBC are doing.

If I'm becoming tiresome please feel free to skip over my posts or, better still, put me on ignore.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I don't have a problem with questions being asked.

Where I do have an issue is the same bloody question being asked over and over (such as on lockdown) after it has been answered and in the hope of someone tripping up by committing to a target.

Also where the journalist seems to have reached a conclusion yet the situation is constantly evolving.

Then treat those questions like some of the posters on here.......ignore them.

I’ve virtually stopped watching all TV News now and will sit down on an evening and read it all online from every available source, both national and international.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Ah yes - I thought I'd have the personal comeback...but I decided to post it in any case. Comparing me with the BBC is not exactly comparing like with like is it - but hey.

And so let me chuck back into the pot the 1billion pieces of PPE the government was telling us they'd delivered. Yes I whanged on about wondering what that 1bn comprised of until I could no longer be bothered asking the question as I was told I was being tedious - and why need I know...well...in the interests of the clarity and honesty that Johnson is promising...

Who, other than yourself, has compared you to the BBC?

You were critical of another poster for criticising the BBC and you finding that criticism tiresome.

I am merely suggesting that many may have found your continual sniping at the Brexit process equally or even more tiresome.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Then treat those questions like some of the posters on here.......ignore them.

I’ve virtually stopped watching all TV News now and will sit down on an evening and read it all online from every available source, both national and international.

I don't think that I could cope with that much bad news.

My wife and I now confine ourselves to the daily briefings and questions.