Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Deleted member 16999]

I don't think that I could cope with that much bad news.

My wife and I now confine ourselves to the daily briefings and questions.

Just the opposite mate, lots of positives out there, ie the graph I posted in the other thread last night, but as we know, positives don’t sell newspapers.

 

[Hobbit]

I don't think that I could cope with that much bad news.

My wife and I now confine ourselves to the daily briefings and questions.

I don't even bother with the questions. I find the experts excellent to listen to, and to a certain extent the minister have been decent. After that, some it was getting crazy stupid.

 

[PJ87]

Leftie rag still banging on about PPE shortages this morning. Don't they know it's good news week?

View attachment 30296

Are you sure this is real? I don't see foreigners blamed ... Can't be the mail

 

[AmandaJR]

Oh the irony. We're stood in silence at 11am, heads bowed, paying silent tribute to those who have lost their lives fighting this virus when David's phone bleeps loudly. A minute later he looks at it and it's the BBC app alerting, late, to the minute's silence!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Oh the irony. We're stood in silence at 11am, heads bowed, paying silent tribute to those who have lost their lives fighting this virus when David's phone bleeps loudly. A minute later he looks at it and it's the BBC app alerting, late, to the minute's silence!

Shouldn’t your anti-BBC posts be in random irritations or a new thread?

The OP for this thread was quite clear what it was to be used for.

 

[AmandaJR]

Shouldn’t your anti-BBC posts be in random irritations or a new thread?

The OP for this thread was quite clear what it was to be used for.

Good point, well made. Just on a wind up

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why? I'm not drawing a comparison of the BBC versus others rather than commenting on what the BBC are doing.

If I'm becoming tiresome please feel free to skip over my posts or, better still, put me on ignore.

You are not becoming tiresome - endless criticism of the BBC is. I just don't consider the criticism merited - that's all.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Who said all these “experts” are, in your words “more than a dozen scientific people, at the top of their profession” are they actually that or would these so called anti-government posters, as you called them, be right in asking you if you are so pro-government you believe everything the government tells you?

I am not pro Government at all, and likely to be as big a critic as you or anyone in normal times. I have voted in my time for all the parties- I am not a One Party man.
But in times of National crisis such as this, or as in the last war, I believe a time comes when the government puts Party politics aside for the sake of the survival or well being of the Nation.
This is one of those times.
I am from working class stock, grandson of a miner. I know that Churchill was an entitled, privileged politician who swapped parties for his career's benefit, and had I been alive then I would have been no admirer of him.
But when the war came, that situation overrode the party politics and he, as the Prime minister, led a government whose sole aim was to win the war and survive. He had to make some awful but necessary decisions, and did so.
And now, I see an almost parallel situation. Those representatives at the Daily briefings are not seen by me as party politicians. I see them as the people who happen to be the government at a time when this awful disease is attacking us.
It falls to them to make the difficult decisions to get us through. I do not see any of them making decisions on party lines, and I do not see it right for their motives to be attacked on party lines either.

 

[Imurg]

You are not becoming tiresome - endless criticism of the BBC is. I just don't consider the criticism merited - that's all.

So if I considered your constant criticism of certain government officials performance during the daily briefing to be merited would you stop ....?

 

[Hobbit]

I am not pro Government at all, and likely to be as big a critic as you or anyone in normal times. I have voted in my time for all the parties- I am not a One Party man.
But in times of National crisis such as this, or as in the last war, I believe a time comes when the government puts Party politics aside for the sake of the survival or well being of the Nation.
This is one of those times.
I am from working class stock, grandson of a miner. I know that Churchill was an entitled, privileged politician who swapped parties for his career's benefit, and had I been alive then I would have been no admirer of him.
But when the war came, that situation overrode the party politics and he, as the Prime minister, led a government whose sole aim was to win the war and survive. He had to make some awful but necessary decisions, and did so.
And now, I see an almost parallel situation. Those representatives at the Daily briefings are not seen by me as party politicians. I see them as the people who happen to be the government at a time when this awful disease is attacking us.
It falls to them to make the difficult decisions to get us through. I do not see any of them making decisions on party lines, and I do not see it right for their motives to be attacked on party lines either.

Point very well made. And perhaps something we all should consider before we jump in on occasion. There may well be pragmatic decisions made which, with the benefit of unlimited resources, wouldn't normally be made.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

So if I considered your constant criticism of certain government officials performance during the daily briefing to be merited would you stop ....?

Oh gawd, he’s gone all Foxy on us ??

 

[SaintHacker]

An interesting view that I've just read on a popular social media site, not necessarily my view as none of us will ever know the full ins and outs, but a good read nevertheless

GOVERNMENT FAILURE TO ORDER EQUIPMENT FOR THE COVID PANDEMIC
- A REALITY CHECK..

Let's get this in perspective for the crayon eaters who are set on pulling down the government.
Firstly, THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT ORDER EQUIPMENT for the NHS, they supply the money. The MANAGERS of the NHS itself are the procurement sources. Also it’s not the government that deals with the logistics for the NHS, it's, yes you've guessed it, it’s the NHS itself.
Not those on the front line, I think we all have the utmost respect for the Doctors, Nurses and care staff putting their lives on the line on a daily basis, doing their jobs under extreme pressure. It's more the overfed NHS executives and management

Two years ago there was a major exercise to ascertain if the country was prepared for a possible pandemic, the government did NOT run that exercise, the NHS did, during which they used their fantastic line "we can flex", so they were supposedly in a good place, add to that now Brexit with all the stockpiles that we had, they sat there and told the government “we are OK.”
Did these MANAGERS then pre-empt the 4 weeks pipeline ordering (that's how long it takes a container ship to come from...CHINA!)?.... So how did we end up in this lack of equipment situation? Well, they stopped ordering from local sources .... probably a big mistake, all their eggs in one basket, who did that? Not the government, but the NHS procurement office!
We have care homes screaming out for PPE but shouting at the government... Oh wait a minute....the majority of the care homes are PRIVATE business's, 84% to be exact. It is not the responsibility of the government to order PPE for private care homes, the remaining care homes are COUNCIL led, therefore whichever political banner they are under, it is down to them.
There are people hiding behind and blaming the government, when in reality it is those MANAGERS who have ownership and who have messed up.
Not to worry though...our wonderfully nonpartisan journalists and crayon munching joe public who believe the tripe that they publish continue to bash the government.
The real genuinely caring public knows that our media are crap in almost every quarter and the muppets that chuck the stones from the sidelines, you know the ones that are armchair virologist/strategy professionals who could do oh so much better...NOT.
The government has probably made some mistakes over recent weeks, but not as many as the media would have you believe. Instead of trying to pull this country together the media seems to seek to divide...we really don't need this at this crucial time, so be careful in believing what you’re hearing from our biased mainstream media and the gutter press and the armchair specialists. We need to get through this and your incessant squeaking and whinging is nothing short of oxygen thievery.
Let's get through this and beat this, together, as it is not over yet, not by a long chalk.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I am not pro Government at all, and likely to be as big a critic as you or anyone in normal times. I have voted in my time for all the parties- I am not a One Party man.
But in times of National crisis such as this, or as in the last war, I believe a time comes when the government puts Party politics aside for the sake of the survival or well being of the Nation.
This is one of those times.
I am from working class stock, grandson of a miner. I know that Churchill was an entitled, privileged politician who swapped parties for his career's benefit, and had I been alive then I would have been no admirer of him.
But when the war came, that situation overrode the party politics and he, as the Prime minister, led a government whose sole aim was to win the war and survive. He had to make some awful but necessary decisions, and did so.
And now, I see an almost parallel situation. Those representatives at the Daily briefings are not seen by me as party politicians. I see them as the people who happen to be the government at a time when this awful disease is attacking us.
It falls to them to make the difficult decisions to get us through. I do not see any of them making decisions on party lines, and I do not see it right for their motives to be attacked on party lines either.

Thanks for the history lesson.

You and similar posters are the ones making the criticism political! As soon as anyone questions the government you and others come back with it being from a political stand point, as I’ve said, sometimes a question is simply that, a question.

 

[rudebhoy]

I am not pro Government at all, and likely to be as big a critic as you or anyone in normal times. I have voted in my time for all the parties- I am not a One Party man.
But in times of National crisis such as this, or as in the last war, I believe a time comes when the government puts Party politics aside for the sake of the survival or well being of the Nation.
This is one of those times.
I am from working class stock, grandson of a miner. I know that Churchill was an entitled, privileged politician who swapped parties for his career's benefit, and had I been alive then I would have been no admirer of him.
But when the war came, that situation overrode the party politics and he, as the Prime minister, led a government whose sole aim was to win the war and survive. He had to make some awful but necessary decisions, and did so.
And now, I see an almost parallel situation. Those representatives at the Daily briefings are not seen by me as party politicians. I see them as the people who happen to be the government at a time when this awful disease is attacking us.
It falls to them to make the difficult decisions to get us through. I do not see any of them making decisions on party lines, and I do not see it right for their motives to be attacked on party lines either.

My worry is that the government relax the lock down too soon, leading to a massive 2nd wave. Johnson acknowledged the risk of that yesterday, but it has been reported the Tories are coming under a lot of pressure from donors to open things up.

If they give in to that pressure and open up too fast and too wide, that would be a purely political decision rather than being in the national interest. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

An interesting view that I've just read on a popular social media site, not necessarily my view as none of us will ever know the full ins and outs, but a good read nevertheless

GOVERNMENT FAILURE TO ORDER EQUIPMENT FOR THE COVID PANDEMIC
- A REALITY CHECK..

Let's get this in perspective for the crayon eaters who are set on pulling down the government.
Firstly, THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT ORDER EQUIPMENT for the NHS, they supply the money. The MANAGERS of the NHS itself are the procurement sources. Also it’s not the government that deals with the logistics for the NHS, it's, yes you've guessed it, it’s the NHS itself.
Not those on the front line, I think we all have the utmost respect for the Doctors, Nurses and care staff putting their lives on the line on a daily basis, doing their jobs under extreme pressure. It's more the overfed NHS executives and management

Two years ago there was a major exercise to ascertain if the country was prepared for a possible pandemic, the government did NOT run that exercise, the NHS did, during which they used their fantastic line "we can flex", so they were supposedly in a good place, add to that now Brexit with all the stockpiles that we had, they sat there and told the government “we are OK.”
Did these MANAGERS then pre-empt the 4 weeks pipeline ordering (that's how long it takes a container ship to come from...CHINA!)?.... So how did we end up in this lack of equipment situation? Well, they stopped ordering from local sources .... probably a big mistake, all their eggs in one basket, who did that? Not the government, but the NHS procurement office!
We have care homes screaming out for PPE but shouting at the government... Oh wait a minute....the majority of the care homes are PRIVATE business's, 84% to be exact. It is not the responsibility of the government to order PPE for private care homes, the remaining care homes are COUNCIL led, therefore whichever political banner they are under, it is down to them.
There are people hiding behind and blaming the government, when in reality it is those MANAGERS who have ownership and who have messed up.
Not to worry though...our wonderfully nonpartisan journalists and crayon munching joe public who believe the tripe that they publish continue to bash the government.
The real genuinely caring public knows that our media are crap in almost every quarter and the muppets that chuck the stones from the sidelines, you know the ones that are armchair virologist/strategy professionals who could do oh so much better...NOT.
The government has probably made some mistakes over recent weeks, but not as many as the media would have you believe. Instead of trying to pull this country together the media seems to seek to divide...we really don't need this at this crucial time, so be careful in believing what you’re hearing from our biased mainstream media and the gutter press and the armchair specialists. We need to get through this and your incessant squeaking and whinging is nothing short of oxygen thievery.
Let's get through this and beat this, together, as it is not over yet, not by a long chalk.

Maybe for balance as the above was first posted on a “right wing” site (Guido Fawkes) we should read this from Private Eye Magazine.

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/hp-sauce

 

[2blue]

An interesting view that I've just read on a popular social media site, not necessarily my view as none of us will ever know the full ins and outs, but a good read nevertheless

GOVERNMENT FAILURE TO ORDER EQUIPMENT FOR THE COVID PANDEMIC
- A REALITY CHECK..

Let's get this in perspective for the crayon eaters who are set on pulling down the government.
Firstly, THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT ORDER EQUIPMENT for the NHS, they supply the money. The MANAGERS of the NHS itself are the procurement sources. Also it’s not the government that deals with the logistics for the NHS, it's, yes you've guessed it, it’s the NHS itself.
Not those on the front line, I think we all have the utmost respect for the Doctors, Nurses and care staff putting their lives on the line on a daily basis, doing their jobs under extreme pressure. It's more the overfed NHS executives and management

Two years ago there was a major exercise to ascertain if the country was prepared for a possible pandemic, the government did NOT run that exercise, the NHS did, during which they used their fantastic line "we can flex", so they were supposedly in a good place, add to that now Brexit with all the stockpiles that we had, they sat there and told the government “we are OK.”
Did these MANAGERS then pre-empt the 4 weeks pipeline ordering (that's how long it takes a container ship to come from...CHINA!)?.... So how did we end up in this lack of equipment situation? Well, they stopped ordering from local sources .... probably a big mistake, all their eggs in one basket, who did that? Not the government, but the NHS procurement office!
We have care homes screaming out for PPE but shouting at the government... Oh wait a minute....the majority of the care homes are PRIVATE business's, 84% to be exact. It is not the responsibility of the government to order PPE for private care homes, the remaining care homes are COUNCIL led, therefore whichever political banner they are under, it is down to them.
There are people hiding behind and blaming the government, when in reality it is those MANAGERS who have ownership and who have messed up.
Not to worry though...our wonderfully nonpartisan journalists and crayon munching joe public who believe the tripe that they publish continue to bash the government.
The real genuinely caring public knows that our media are crap in almost every quarter and the muppets that chuck the stones from the sidelines, you know the ones that are armchair virologist/strategy professionals who could do oh so much better...NOT.
The government has probably made some mistakes over recent weeks, but not as many as the media would have you believe. Instead of trying to pull this country together the media seems to seek to divide...we really don't need this at this crucial time, so be careful in believing what you’re hearing from our biased mainstream media and the gutter press and the armchair specialists. We need to get through this and your incessant squeaking and whinging is nothing short of oxygen thievery.
Let's get through this and beat this, together, as it is not over yet, not by a long chalk.

Yeah we've already heard this one from the Tory right-wing extremists...... excuses... excuses.... excuses

Maybe for balance as the above was first posted on a “right wing” site (Guido Fawkes) we should read this from Private Eye Magazine.

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/hp-sauce

Thanks Paul

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yeah we've already heard this one from the Tory right-wing extremists...... excuses... excuses.... excuses


Thanks Paul

Tbh mate, I don’t know if either post is 100% correct or 50% or zero.

The issue I have is when these things are posted with no source reference or understanding of where its come from.

People will instantly dismiss the guardian or the mail depending on political bias but accept and in some cases even like a post that is completely untrustworthy without a 2nd glance.

 

[Hobbit]

Maybe for balance as the above was first posted on a “right wing” site (Guido Fawkes) we should read this from Private Eye Magazine.

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/hp-sauce

Yeah we've already heard this one from the Tory right-wing extremists...... excuses... excuses.... excuses


Thanks Paul

Just for a bit of history and accuracy, SCCL was set up to take back in-house NHS Supply Chain. NHS Supply Chain was a DHL owned subsidiary set up during Tony Blair's Labour Govt, i.e. Labour privatised yet another part of the NHS - they were good at it back then. NHS Supply Chain(DHL) took a premium from each Trust for every deal they sourced and 2 premiums from every supplier, one being a percentage of the deal and a one-off admin fee to be on the preferred supplier list - funnily enough this one-off fee was required every year, irrespective of whether or not the company sold anything to the NHS that year.

SCCL is not govt owned, it is state owned, and is back to being a part(dept) of the NHS. Who'd have thought the Tories would be in to Nationalisation!

To a large extent it is staffed by NHS employees who were TUP'd across to DHL, when good old Tony and Labour sold them off, and TUP'd back to the NHS in the SCCL dept.

Good old Tony sold off kidney dialysis units to a Canadian Company called Northern Renal, and a good number of orthopaedic surgery units to a South African Company, whose name deserts me at present. One of those surgical units was actually on the Trafford General Hospital site, the site of the very first NHS hospital - talk about slap in the face/betrayal!

In the last year of DHL's management of procurement the NHS spent £18bn, of which DHL charged the Trusts 4% = £720m, and there's now a £500m cross-charge for services rendered. A saving of £220m, and people think that's a bad thing? Really? Get a flipping grip!

As for the shortage of PPE; its up to the NHS to order it. Its not a govt function. If there's a shortage, ask the NHS why it wasn't ordered.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Just for a bit of history and accuracy, SCCL was set up to take back in-house NHS Supply Chain. NHS Supply Chain was a DHL owned subsidiary set up during Tony Blair's Labour Govt, i.e. Labour privatised yet another part of the NHS - they were good at it back then. NHS Supply Chain(DHL) took a premium from each Trust for every deal they sourced and 2 premiums from every supplier, one being a percentage of the deal and a one-off admin fee to be on the preferred supplier list - funnily enough this one-off fee was required every year, irrespective of whether or not the company sold anything to the NHS that year.

SCCL is not govt owned, it is state owned, and is back to being a part(dept) of the NHS. Who'd have thought the Tories would be in to Nationalisation!

To a large extent it is staffed by NHS employees who were TUP'd across to DHL, when good old Tony and Labour sold them off, and TUP'd back to the NHS in the SCCL dept.

Good old Tony sold off kidney dialysis units to a Canadian Company called Northern Renal, and a good number of orthopaedic surgery units to a South African Company, whose name deserts me at present. One of those surgical units was actually on the Trafford General Hospital site, the site of the very first NHS hospital - talk about slap in the face/betrayal!

In the last year of DHL's management of procurement the NHS spent £18bn, of which DHL charged the Trusts 4% = £720m, and there's now a £500m cross-charge for services rendered. A saving of £220m, and people think that's a bad thing? Really? Get a flipping grip!

As for the shortage of PPE; its up to the NHS to order it. Its not a govt function. If there's a shortage, ask the NHS why it wasn't ordered.

Cheers Bri, as I put above I have no idea of the accuracy of either posts.

As to the ordering or problems with PPE and NHS requirements I have no issue with the Government and stock levels prior to this pandemic, were I do hold the Government to account is when the situation has needed resolving and when and where they choose to step in.

There have been some amazing financial initiatives all under the Government’s gift, they have helped out with Logistics by mobilizing the Armed Forces were required, I also believe they could possibly have stepped in and clarified the PPE situation and again stopped the media in its tracks.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So if I considered your constant criticism of certain government officials performance during the daily briefing to be merited would you stop ....?

What have I got to do with the BBC and continual criticism of the BBC that I simply consider unmerited. If I want to hear something on any news bulletin that I disagree with so that I can complain about the broadcaster then I am sure I can. But that is not how I listen to the news.