Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Deleted member 16999]

TBH, I'm not bothered about comparisons either way. But any crisis, whatever it is, brings about different human strengths and weaknesses. Strength of character, stamina, fortitude, overcoming fear, putting yourself in danger for others. And then there's fear, anxiety, depression and a potential for PTSD for those who experience it over a prolonged period.

When you were out there where the shots were flying you'll have seen someone looking like a scared rabbit and someone barely registering the noise, their brain recognising its nowhere near them. And if you spent a few hours in ICU you would hear alarms going off almost all of the time, and you would see the rabbit in the headlights and a lot of people who'd give it barely a second glance. ICU for the uninitiated, especially a relative is frightening, and it generates the flight or fight response.

How different people rationalise their current experiences is actually a very personal thing, and is about frontal lobe, back of house. If they want to rationalise it as a war, for their own piece of mind, I actually think its wrong of you or Wolfie to dismiss them. Not being able to rationalise things, and put them in the filing cabinet at the back of the brain, is what causes mental issues. I don't disagree with how you and Wolfie view this current crisis, nor your views on how others might view it but dismissing them is actually very wrong.

I agree with what you say as you are looking at it through the eyes of an individual, what I’m dismissing is others comparing it when they have no idea either.

My issue is those in positions of influence telling us as a collective how it should be compared and thought of, that daft list that started this discussion has been pushed today by the likes of Lord Ashcroft, it must be easy to be a tax exile in Belize telling us how our current situation is so like WW2 and how modern society wouldn’t of coped!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

BBC and Sky both now reporting that the government have employed 21,000 contact tracers. This is NOT what Matt Hancock actually said in the HoC in his statement, and so maybe his answer to the later question when he made the 21,000 contact tracers statement/claim has done the trick...pressure off.

If she hadn’t already applied and be awaiting an interview to be a contact tracer, my Mrs says if the 21,000 contact tracers is true then she now wouldn’t bother applying.

 

[Old Skier]

BBC and Sky both now reporting that the government have employed 21,000 contact tracers. This is NOT what Matt Hancock actually said in the HoC in his statement, and so maybe his answer to the later question when he made the 21,000 contact tracers statement/claim has done the trick...pressure off.

If she hadn’t already applied and be awaiting an interview to be a contact tracer, my Mrs says if the 21,000 contact tracers is true then she now wouldn’t bother applying.

The contact tracers are a team and when your wife applied she may have noticed that they have different jobs called something else and paid at different rates. Contact Tracer is just being used generically. Many post are being filled by those in the public sector who arnt working in their current field.

 

[Old Skier]

BBC and Sky both now reporting that the government have employed 21,000 contact tracers. This is NOT what Matt Hancock actually said in the HoC in his statement, and so maybe his answer to the later question when he made the 21,000 contact tracers statement/claim has done the trick...pressure off.

If she hadn’t already applied and be awaiting an interview to be a contact tracer, my Mrs says if the 21,000 contact tracers is true then she now wouldn’t bother applying.

BBC reported on 1800 hrs news just that original figure was for 18,000 but they have reached 21,000.

 

[Hobbit]

I agree with what you say as you are looking at it through the eyes of an individual, what I’m dismissing is others comparing it when they have no idea either.

My issue is those in positions of influence telling us as a collective how it should be compared and thought of, that daft list that started this discussion has been pushed today by the likes of Lord Ashcroft, it must be easy to be a tax exile in Belize telling us how our current situation is so like WW2 and how modern society wouldn’t of coped!

A Cognitive Behavioural Therapist would create coping strategies and phrases to help people cope with anxiety, stress etc. I'm not fussed either way if the powers that be have used similar phraseology, maybe even suggested by others, to give people something to focus on rather than have them fearing a great unknown.

Does it actually matter? And, equally, why do you and Wolfie feel so strongly about it? Does it actually matter? Is it an ex-forces 'ownership' thing? As a civvie, I can't see why you're both so absolutely pee'd off by it. Its just an almost nothing phrase thrown out there to give the masses a focus.

As for Lord Ashcroft, like Tony Blair, he's just an irritating noise in the background, a mosquito, a yesterday man? If I saw his name in an article I'd skip over it, just as I do with Blair and Major.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

BBC reported on 1800 hrs news just that original figure was for 18,000 but they have reached 21,000.

Yes I know - but was it not the plan to employ 18000 contact tracers. Hancock’s current figure is 8500 - and that chimes with Brandon Lewis’s 1500 at start of last week.

And yes - as you say, i am pretty sure that the call handlers will have been largely redeployed from other depts and are not newly employed as seems to be what is being said.

So do we still need another 9500 contact tracers or not? If not then my wife might as well not bother.

This must surely matter as the contact tracing is part of the core strategy for enabling children to return to school - and if we are still only half way to the number required and training is still to be done....?

 

[Foxholer]

his statement I am sure he said 22,000 had been employed - then he said 8500 contact tracers and, I think, 13,500 call handlers. I don’t recall the exact total and split but the 8500 contact tracers was definite. Then later under questioning he said the government had employed 22,000 contact tracers.
I hope I misunderstood the figures. But if someone can clarify what Hancock has said.

13500 + 8500 - 22000!

'Nuf said!

 

[Foxholer]

My wife is 64 and has a suppressed immune system.
My daughter is a primary school Sen teacher.
If she brings the virus home I could lose my wife or my own life.
So this sort of sets my opinion.
100% safe you are correct.
But the fact that France is shutting schools again after the infection of a pupil seems to me that the science might not be all it’s made out to be.
Obviously people’s circumstances dictate their thoughts, and I would not criticise anyone who takes a different path to me.
I just don’t think putting 5/6 yr olds back in school is the right call atm.

Given the rise in traffic I think your prob right.

This sort of circumstance needs to be taken into account when 'return to work' orders are made!

Heads are the obvious arbiters of who should be 'excluded' from the general 'return to work' order - in spite of teachers natural devotion to their pupils!

Your wife needs to announce her susceptibility and the Head needs to act, without prejudice. Your own situation is no different to anyone else's imo.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

A Cognitive Behavioural Therapist would create coping strategies and phrases to help people cope with anxiety, stress etc. I'm not fussed either way if the powers that be have used similar phraseology, maybe even suggested by others, to give people something to focus on rather than have them fearing a great unknown.

Does it actually matter? And, equally, why do you and Wolfie feel so strongly about it? Does it actually matter? Is it an ex-forces 'ownership' thing? As a civvie, I can't see why you're both so absolutely pee'd off by it. Its just an almost nothing phrase thrown out there to give the masses a focus.

As for Lord Ashcroft, like Tony Blair, he's just an irritating noise in the background, a mosquito, a yesterday man? If I saw his name in an article I'd skip over it, just as I do with Blair and Major.

It’s not an ex-forces ownership for me, it’s listening to the stories of those that experienced WW2, both in and out of service, visiting Dachau and Belsen, seeing the damage it did to the Countries, Cultures and the effects it still has on the World today.

I simply find it insulting to that generation, no matter how tough and heartbreaking the current pandemic is.

 

[Wolf]

A Cognitive Behavioural Therapist would create coping strategies and phrases to help people cope with anxiety, stress etc. I'm not fussed either way if the powers that be have used similar phraseology, maybe even suggested by others, to give people something to focus on rather than have them fearing a great unknown.

Does it actually matter? And, equally, why do you and Wolfie feel so strongly about it? Does it actually matter? Is it an ex-forces 'ownership' thing? As a civvie, I can't see why you're both so absolutely pee'd off by it. Its just an almost nothing phrase thrown out there to give the masses a focus.

As for Lord Ashcroft, like Tony Blair, he's just an irritating noise in the background, a mosquito, a yesterday man? If I saw his name in an article I'd skip over it, just as I do with Blair and Major.

So going by your previous post accusing us of being dismissive of peoples opinion. What exactly is that bit in bold then if not dismissive of what we think or feel. For me it does matter because its personally emotive as someone thats been in war zones on multiple occasions right up front line and seen the true horrors of what that means and how its fought which is so far removed from what Covid-19 is. A nothing phase to you but an emotive phrase to me. Or am I not allowed to feel like that because its not the rationale thats fits the narrative of others in the thread..

Plus that aside I find it disrespectful to the memory of WW2 veterans that went through far worse for far longer with much less opportunity than those have here and now.

If thats being dismissive, so be it I'll stand by my opinion.

 

[Kellfire]

So you can drive to golf .
But can’t to fish.?
Who thought of that, someone’s partner dosnt like fishing.

Because golfing is exercising and good for you whereas there is almost zero physical benefit to fishing.

 

[MegaSteve]

Because golfing is exercising and good for you whereas there is almost zero physical benefit to fishing.

Getting out and about, whatever you are doing, is great for your wellbeing... Which is every bit as important as being physically well... IMHO

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Because golfing is exercising and good for you whereas there is almost zero physical benefit to fishing.

Big positive for the mental wellbeing of those who do it. Surely that has merit?

I don't go fishing myself but I can see the benefit to those who do. Pretty easy to isolate doing it as well.

 

[Foxholer]

Because golfing is exercising and good for you whereas there is almost zero physical benefit to fishing.

But serious 'non-physical' benefit, which is just as important!

 

[Foxholer]

The flaw in that story is that at the start of WW2 Parliament got shot of an unpopular disorganised ineffective leader and replaced him with an effective leader who lead a united national government.

Actually, the 'ineffective leader' removed himself!

 

[drdel]

A Cognitive Behavioural Therapist would create coping strategies and phrases to help people cope with anxiety, stress etc. I'm not fussed either way if the powers that be have used similar phraseology, maybe even suggested by others, to give people something to focus on rather than have them fearing a great unknown.

Does it actually matter? And, equally, why do you and Wolfie feel so strongly about it? Does it actually matter? Is it an ex-forces 'ownership' thing? As a civvie, I can't see why you're both so absolutely pee'd off by it. Its just an almost nothing phrase thrown out there to give the masses a focus.

As for Lord Ashcroft, like Tony Blair, he's just an irritating noise in the background, a mosquito, a yesterday man? If I saw his name in an article I'd skip over it, just as I do with Blair and Major.

I think its based in the comaradrie built up in many of the 'Forces', Armed service, Police, Fire and Ambulance and many tough'professions' where there can be shared life changing, dangerous and traumatic experiences. Its not exactly a "them and us" but its close and it is common to say "you haven't experienced what we have so you don't understand!" as a put-down.

I spent over 20 years training senior tri-service officers, most from the UK but also from USAF, Aussie and Far East: there was always this resistance with a new training cohort. Once overcome (usually after a long session in the mess) they were generally fully receptive and great fun, but not always. However, in recent years the military have been more open and accepted expert 'outsiders' and I was 'lucky to be involved accepted by many Generals, Commodores and Air Marshals during several of our scuffles in the Middle East and Eastern Europe.

I'm sure you (hobbit) have experienced the same scepticism from senior medics who resist civilian 'intereference' irrespective of the depth of expertise in your own field.

Hopefully there's enough fundamental respect to overcome the differences to keep this debate healthy rather us all just argue the toss over analogies/comparisons.

 

[Kellfire]

Big positive for the mental wellbeing of those who do it. Surely that has merit?

I don't go fishing myself but I can see the benefit to those who do. Pretty easy to isolate doing it as well.

Oh there’s definitely a mental benefit but physical takes massive precedence right now, as awful as that is.

 

[DanFST]

That’s her dilemma .
Either not go to work or find somewhere else to live.
Should she really have to move home just to do her job ?
Who pays for that?
Where would she go all hotels around here are closed.?

If I had my way she'd be on furlough until it was safe for your wife to leave. Along with anyone else in the same situation that hasn't changed residence since this happened. (not halfway through the school year). r

 

[PaulS]

Oh there’s definitely a mental benefit but physical takes massive precedence right now, as awful as that is.

People have been able to go out and physical exercise where as the mental side right now is very tiring for a lot of people and it’s prob affecting people more than any physical issues.

I’m not sure either takes precedent over the other right now with both being very key to the future

 

[Kellfire]

People have been able to go out and physical exercise where as the mental side right now is very tiring for a lot of people and it’s prob affecting people more than any physical issues.

I’m not sure either takes precedent over the other right now with both being very key to the future

Covid is killing more people than mental fatigue. Again, I’m not belittling the mental aspect but merely giving my side of where the current thinking is and that I am inclined to agree with it begrudgingly.