Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Swinglowandslow]

That's the only aspect in which war is similar. That is where similarities end period.

A war is fought against a known enemy, a virus is an unknown entity that cannot be seen nor can it be physically fought by an army, air force or Navy. Wars are easier to unite politics on especially if they're being fought on a home front.

This virus is nothing like a war it can't be conquered in the same way, this is something that requires not brute military force, tactics and solving by the taking of lives and territory, this is something that scientists and virologists will sit in a lab working through to create vaccine or by government giving the correct information to its people to help reduce spread to prevent any further loss of life.

As for party politics they don't disappear in war either but are conveniently forgotten once victory has been assured and pats on the back occur.

As for calling a poster disingenuously thick perhaps you should walk a mile in their shoes or profession. Because trust me I can guarantee the plight with this virus is nothing like being boots on the ground fighting a war.

I have seen many posts from you castigating some for comparing the fight against this virus with war.
I understand you have a military background, and if you think the comparison being made by myself is about being in a war as a military man, then you are mistaken.
I respect all military , especially those who have seen action in war. It is something I have been spared, and I am thankful for it. I hear from time to time that hardly any war veterans speak of their experiences, and I can only guess why. I am especially mindful of the recent wars against guerilla enemies.
However, Wolf, I never intended nor do I think I did, compare the fight against the virus with military action.. My comparison was in the similarities where the Nation is facing as a whole, a common threat. That the nation needs to pull together, for the good of each other and not just for ourselves or a particular faction.
Those things were done by the populace in the war . They should be done now. I was not saying that we faced anything like what the military faced.
Thank God!

 

[Hobbit]

So going by your previous post accusing us of being dismissive of peoples opinion. What exactly is that bit in bold then if not dismissive of what we think or feel. For me it does matter because its personally emotive as someone thats been in war zones on multiple occasions right up front line and seen the true horrors of what that means and how its fought which is so far removed from what Covid-19 is. A nothing phase to you but an emotive phrase to me. Or am I not allowed to feel like that because its not the rationale thats fits the narrative of others in the thread..

Plus that aside I find it disrespectful to the memory of WW2 veterans that went through far worse for far longer with much less opportunity than those have here and now.

If thats being dismissive, so be it I'll stand by my opinion.

Sorry Wolfie, that was clumsy of me. I'm not dismissing your opinion BUT neither am I being dismissive of others having a different view on how they rationalise it either. I pay equal respect to yours and theirs. AND I give equal respect to those that gown up, mask up etc every day. What they do is very different to what you did but as far as I'm concerned it deserves equal respect.

Not once have I brought into question what veterans have gone through, in this generation or previous ones. I've campaigned for the RBL, and I've worked in support of veterans that have struggled for years. And on occasion I've travelled 100's of miles to do it. And I've stood at every Remembrance Sunday going back to the mid 70's. You've earned my respect for what you've done and where you've been but you haven't earned the right to lecture me.

As for how you feel about the narrative others have put to it, I agree with you in the sentiment but not in the saying of it. But I feel that if that is how they deal with it, fine. I want people to come out of this horror show in one piece, and if that means I have to bite my tongue because their narrative is different to mine, that's what I'll do. If you want to have a pop at them for it, crack on but just remember its their mental pitprop you're attacking.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

I've discovered that I hate inconvenience even more than I love life.
I would have preferred that a giant asteroid struck the earth, destroying all life instantly, rather than go through the nonsense with which we're presently afflicted.

Not for anything, but I'm really sick of this crap.
I don't want to stay home.
And I don't want to go out among all the diseased cretins.

[Being dead is a piece of cake, but the process of getting there can be a real bother.]

Sometimes there just isn't an acceptable answer.
Why couldn't my sainted mother have had a headache that night?

 

[ColchesterFC]

Covid is killing more people than mental fatigue.

But equally, Covid is killing more people than lack of physical exercise.

 

[Kellfire]

But equally, Covid is killing more people than lack of physical exercise.

True but physics exercise is good for mental health AND the body. It’s a tough balancing act.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Oh there’s definitely a mental benefit but physical takes massive precedence right now, as awful as that is.

In the example of fishing I don't see that it needs to be excluded, why there is a precedence needed. There is no greater risk yet the benefit is significant. It is an outdoor activity, covid doesn't like outdoors, easy to distance, why not?

In terms of the mental toll that is something we simply won't know for some time but this is an easy one to give relief to those who find it peaceful, relaxing, an escape.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Not Coronavirus, but a current example of the WW2 spirit continuing were a Commonwealth Soldier fights for this Country and then we cast them aside! Disgraceful.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/18/british-army-veteran-faces-27000-nhs-hospital-bill

 

[Wolf]

Sorry Wolfie, that was clumsy of me. I'm not dismissing your opinion BUT neither am I being dismissive of others having a different view on how they rationalise it either. I pay equal respect to yours and theirs. AND I give equal respect to those that gown up, mask up etc every day. What they do is very different to what you did but as far as I'm concerned it deserves equal respect.

Not once have I brought into question what veterans have gone through, in this generation or previous ones. I've campaigned for the RBL, and I've worked in support of veterans that have struggled for years. And on occasion I've travelled 100's of miles to do it. And I've stood at every Remembrance Sunday going back to the mid 70's. You've earned my respect for what you've done and where you've been but you haven't earned the right to lecture me.

As for how you feel about the narrative others have put to it, I agree with you in the sentiment but not in the saying of it. But I feel that if that is how they deal with it, fine. I want people to come out of this horror show in one piece, and if that means I have to bite my tongue because their narrative is different to mine, that's what I'll do. If you want to have a pop at them for it, crack on but just remember its their mental pitprop you're attacking.

I haven't lectured you, i ignore your first post in which you called me out. I only replied to the 2nd because you said why does it matter. In which you were dismissive of me and Paul. I gave a direct reply not a lecture if anything looking back over the 2 posts it is you Hobbit who is lecturing. I never said you were questioning anything, I'd not replied you till that last post of yours. I see you've also taken this to PM so I'll read that and reply accordingly and not go further on here with you about it. But don't tell me I'm lecturing you when it's you who has called me out at length twice depsite me not discussing with you prior and me only replying to what your saying..

 

[Old Skier]

Anyway, best quote of the day from a 105 lady on the local TV having just been released after having the virus.

Reporter: How do you feel

105 year old: With my hands

 

[SocketRocket]

Not Coronavirus, but a current example of the WW2 spirit continuing were a Commonwealth Soldier fights for this Country and then we cast them aside! Disgraceful.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/18/british-army-veteran-faces-27000-nhs-hospital-bill

This issue isnt really anything to do with someone using wartime analogies as a parallel for the fight or battle against Corona Virus (excuse the terminology but it seems suitable) However I cant see anyone disagreeing with your sentiments in this particular case as its presented.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

BBC News - Coronavirus: UK too slow to increase testing capacity, say MPs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52716828
When the inquest comes into lessons learnt this one should be front and centre.

 

[DanFST]

Northern Ireland opening restrictions well beyond anything else in the UK, whilst not presenting any data or being too clear on dates and logistics......

Yet eerily quiet on here. One could think posts on here might not of actually been about concern for safety, rather that they don't like the current majority government?

 

[pendodave]

Northern Ireland opening restrictions well beyond anything else in the UK, whilst not presenting any data or being too clear on dates and logistics......

Yet eerily quiet on here. One could think posts on here might not of actually been about concern for safety, rather that they don't like the current majority government?

What's eerily quiet on here us that unemployment increased by 1m people last month, and that doesn't even cover the main period of lockdown or the unwinding of the furlough..and no-one sees fit to mention it.
Earlier in this thread there was talk of protecting our most valuable assets.
The most valuable asset of a modern democracy is a functioning economy. We are burning it to the ground for an entire generation. Fine if you're old and rich, not so much for everybody else.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

What's eerily quiet on here us that unemployment increased by 1m people last month, and that doesn't even cover the main period of lockdown or the unwinding of the furlough..and no-one sees fit to mention it.
Earlier in this thread there was talk of protecting our most valuable assets.
The most valuable asset of a modern democracy is a functioning economy. We are burning it to the ground for an entire generation. Fine if you're old and rich, not so much for everybody else.

Its terrible out there, many many people not working and billions of pound lost(weird thinking that, as the world is in a go slow state, but that is the way the world goes round).

I know from people in business, they are now starting to realise the economy is not just going to be turned on again and be at full bore. Big sectors(& support parts) wont be back to normal for years or will be running at reduced capacity and that's assuming a vaccine comes along quickly. Some sectors wont be able to make a profit from social distancing and will go bust and that will filter into other sectors.

Very worrying times across the board, for economy, storing up medical issues, loss of life and/or severe hardship(health and wealth). And that's only looking at the UK, poorer countries are going to need help as well. Can see money printing being the only way out across the world.

All sides to this are razor sharp and frankly its poo.

I hope I am proved wrong.

 

[road2ruin]

Warning, this is a rather long and waffley post…..

As a father of a 5yr old we have been in the thick of the ‘going back to school’ discussion for the last couple of weeks and my overriding observation is how the talk has become very much Brexit like. It is very divisive and what were usually very supportive WhatsApp groups for the mum’s within the class have become a judgement argument between those who aren’t sending their children back because they don’t feel safe and cannot believe anyone would want to risk the health of their child and those who are sending theirs back and thing anyone who doesn’t is being overly scared and there are risks in everything we do. There doesn’t seem to be room for people to appreciate that they have their own point of view but everyone’s circumstances are different and we shouldn’t be judging parents for the decision that they make in the coming weeks.

FWIW we are going to be sending our daughter in on June 8th (in our school they are having nursery/reception in on the 1st and then Yr1 a week later). My personal view is that actually it’s probably going to be safest for her to go in for a few weeks before the summer given all of the plans that have been put in place whereas in September there are suddenly going to be all year groups back, 30 in a class and the playgrounds full again. Having spoken to a few teachers that I know they feel the same, whilst they are concerned about going back in June they are more worried about September on the basis that there is unlikely to be a vaccine and whilst the R number might be lower there are unlikely to be many protective measures in place simply because their cannot be with all classes back in action. I appreciate there are many different views on this from parents/staff so I am not suggesting these are right or wrong, it’s just the attitudes of those who I personally know.

Myself and my wife have talked about this at length and it’s not so much the educational impact that this is having on our daughter that is worrying us. I’m sure she will catch up although being a summer born she was already playing catch up so this break in learning hasn’t helped. She was a very willing student to begin with however the novelty soon wore off and we don’t have a big enough house to have a area specifically for ‘teaching’ as there are still distractions around. We have done our best to keep things ticking over however the summer term started and the school started expecting us to teach new things, this wasn’t so much of an issue in the early days as we were just reinforcing what she’d already been taught however the arrival of fractions, multiplication and division were a step too far!!

Anyway, back on topic, the thing we have noticed is that she is far more prone to emotional outbursts, she’s quieter and she doesn’t want to do Zoom calls with her friends as it upsets her. We have tried to keep things as social as possible however when she’s outside she’s scared of people coming anywhere near here due to the virus and in all honestly we’d like her to get back into an environment where she starts to realise that it’s not a killer (although obviously it does kill) and she doesn’t have to be scared about people. For me, the June start will hopefully allow her some time to get to grips with this and when September starts (in theory) she will be better prepared for that.

Last night we had the letter from our school to give us an idea of what we (and our daughter) can expect going back. The following may not be of interest but will give you an insight into the preparation schools are doing.

No social distancing as that cannot be reasonably expected of Yr 1 pupils.

Children taught in ‘bubbles’ of 15. They will be allocated adult(s) who will only work within their bubble and will not teach/work with any other bubbles.

One way system for drop off/collection with staggered start/end times with parents being given a 5 minute window at the start and end of each day.

Full days bar Friday when the school will be closed in the afternoon for a deep clean and teachers can plan/prep

Lunch in classroom and traditional play time/lunch break will be replaced by allocated time out of the classroom for each bubble(s)

No school uniform and no books or pencil cases etc to be brought in with child. Just a water bottle, snack and coat if required.

No face cover/masks will be required by either children or teachers.

If there is an incidence of suspected COVID-19 then parents will be informed and will be asked to collect their child immediately and be asked to self isolate for 14 days. The school will not be closed at this point and only those within the particular bubble will be asked not to attend for the self isolation period.

The school have then gone on to ask parents to confirm who will be attending come the start date. For any that decide that they aren’t willing to attend, they will not be given the option to change their mind at a later point in the term unless someone else drops out i.e. if in a couple of weeks you see that all is working well and you now feel comfortable to send your child in then you can’t unless there is space. If not then you will have to wait until September.

Again, apologies for the length of this, ultimately I think there will only be a right or wrong in hindsight and we have made a decision based on the risks to us as an immediate family and also for the mental health of our daughter. We are not judging anyone who feels that the risks are too high and will not be sending theirs back in and hope that we don’t get into the situation where we’re faced with being judged ourselves. That said if people do then they can go for it, I have thicker skin that that.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Northern Ireland opening restrictions well beyond anything else in the UK, whilst not presenting any data or being too clear on dates and logistics......

Yet eerily quiet on here. One could think posts on here might not of actually been about concern for safety, rather that they don't like the current majority government?

What is strange is that NI was originally more cautious than England but has now seemed to have jumped a stage and is allowing up to 6 people to meet outside, not just the 2 as in England.

A question for the folks on here from NI, how is this being seen over there? Are people happy for the increased freedom or fearful of a step too soon? A jump to 6 over here would have been slaughtered in the press.

 

[DanFST]

What's eerily quiet on here us that unemployment increased by 1m people last month, and that doesn't even cover the main period of lockdown or the unwinding of the furlough..and no-one sees fit to mention it.
Earlier in this thread there was talk of protecting our most valuable assets.
The most valuable asset of a modern democracy is a functioning economy. We are burning it to the ground for an entire generation. Fine if you're old and rich, not so much for everybody else.

Whilst I see your point, I feel it's quiet as that's incredibly obvious.

Yes the economy is tanked, but everyone's is. It's be tanked even if we'd shut borders instantly before a case appeared here. The key take away is that many will be out of work, sectors will die out as they are no longer sustainable whilst this virus is about.

However, other sectors will grow, people will have to change careers no doubt. It'll grow as a whole as long as we adapt, it always has. (maybe that's another thread to keep separate from this one?)

 

[Hobbit]

What is strange is that NI was originally more cautious than England but has now seemed to have jumped a stage and is allowing up to 6 people to meet outside, not just the 2 as in England.

A question for the folks on here from NI, how is this being seen over there? Are people happy for the increased freedom or fearful of a step too soon? A jump to 6 over here would have been slaughtered in the press.

Be interested to know where NI is on the curve. In Spain, each of the provinces is on any one of 3 phases. Madrid/Barcelona is on the original phase 0, with a few relaxations. They're calling it phase 0.5. Most of Spain is in phase 1. The Canaries and one of the Balearics is in phase 2. However, moving between provinces is prohibited.

I can see sense in different regions being at different levels providing there's the right regs for each region.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Desperate stuff from BBC Scotland's Sarah Smith.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/1...h-claims-fm-enjoys-making-decisions-covid-19/
She has looked more and more uncomfortable as support for Sturgeon's Covid actions gains strong support in Scotland.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Be interested to know where NI is on the curve. In Spain, each of the provinces is on any one of 3 phases. Madrid/Barcelona is on the original phase 0, with a few relaxations. They're calling it phase 0.5. Most of Spain is in phase 1. The Canaries and one of the Balearics is in phase 2. However, moving between provinces is prohibited.

I can see sense in different regions being at different levels providing there's the right regs for each region.

I have absolutely no problem with different regions, or in our case countries, moving at different speeds. In the case of the UK it is devolution in action. I found it very odd that the people moaning most about Boris moving differently to the devolved nations were the ones who want to be able to make their own decisions for themselves. Seperate nations under the same banner making local decisions that suit them.