Coronavirus and Religion Discuss

[Papas1982]

My biggest issue with religion is how/when it’s taught. I believe it was Gervais (who doesn’t generally mock religious people, as much as the concept of religion itself) who said something I’d thought for a while.

Let people find religion and see how long is continues. I’ve seen how my daughters are taught about Easter at school, eggs hunts and chocolate before being sat down and spoken to about god. Positive association at its finest.

It’s a very simplified comparison But here’s goes. When I grew up, the amount of kids I knew that supported Saints was very closely linked to the amount of my friends that weren’t living with single mums. if a figure of authority does something whilst you’re young, you follow it. Yet those that decided to pick a team they liked when older as hadn‘t had dad around most often went for the successful teams.

i have no issue with religious people, much like veganism it is a lifestyle choice. Maybe I’m blind to it as I don’t follow either, but generally it does seem those of a faith/belief try to convert those that aren’t more than vice versa.

Re the op. People of faith do at times seem to coop better with times of struggle than those without simply due to having blind faith in there being a purpose.

as was said earlier by fragger Earlier. Those of faith will usually hit a crossroad at some point. At this point they either become disillusioned with god and thank those that saved them (docs etc) or they believe god gave the docs the tools. In my experience the views become a lot firmer from that point onwards and any discussion becomes futile.

Generally speaking I have absolutely no time for religion. As long as you’re happy in your view (whatever it is) and don’t try to convert me to it, I really don’t know why people get so worked up by it.

 

[jim8flog]

My biggest problem has always been not really believing in the Church.

I see it as a place run by people with motives that are not always in accordance with Christian teachings.

I do believe in a Christian way of life but I do not necessarily believe Christ was the son of God.

The other thing I have with any religion really is that they seem to be the root of a lot of conflicts. If there were no religions whatsoever would the world be a better place?

 

[Khamelion]

An aethiest and the Pope were arguing about God, it all started very civilised but it soon got quite heated.

The Pope say to the Aethiest, "You sir are like a blindfolded man in a dark room looking for a black cat that is not there!"

The Aetiest replies, "I think we are quite similar, in that you are also like a blindfolded man in a dark room loking for a black cat that is not there, the exception being you have found it"

Thank you Dave Allen.

 

[Grant85]

Moved from main Corona thread



Happy Easter and may your vocal pipes stay in key!

Bit of a tangent here - As something of an agnostic myself (still waiting on my epiphany) and despite being forced to and being a bit resentful of Sunday School as a kid when my mates were playing on their Grifters, how does a person with strong religious faith reason away covid19? - innocent good church/mosque/synanogue - going believers are dying miserably alone in induced comas or concious with fear along with all the non believers, no difference. Maybe an unknown medic/nurse holds their hand as they pass if they're lucky.

Does it not test your faith in any way? God is supposed to control everything in nature. Does it go down as the work of the devil? Does faith come into this pandemic at all? Wellby and others going on about sacrifices Jesus made for us all etc etc just seems a bit trite given where we are.
Does faith come with middle-classness and personal wealth, seems the Christian faith largely does looking at congregation demographics?

The term 'blind faith' seems more true than ever does it not? I just struggle to join the dots with faith and like the term 'follow your own nose'. My brother's a strong-faithed Episcopalian and my mum attends CoS now and again (her generation had to conform and her faith is weaker) but I just never got it.
I suppose if it offers comfort to some then that's a good thing.

Or is Kevin Bridges right when he jokes God is simply 'out of his depth' these days.

From a religious point of view, the Old Testament talks of a vengeful god (the rains that caused the floods and Noah's Ark, for example). So I'd guess Coronavirus would be described as some kind of vengeance by religious theologians. Not only are people dying, but the ones who are left can't life a life of excess.

In reality, I see this as natural evolution or Darwinism. The whole point of a virus is that it kills the old and weak, leaving the strongest to survive (and breed) as well as then having fewer mouth's to feed. Not nice to think of, but that's just how nature works.

Nature didn't bank on us having a vaccine for most flu strains, so every so often it throws up a new strain.

Also when you think of this virus... potentially infects up to 50% of the population who show zero, or very mild, symptoms. It is actually an extremely effective virus at being transmitted around the population.

 

[SocketRocket]

From a religious point of view, the Old Testament talks of a vengeful god (the rains that caused the floods and Noah's Ark, for example). So I'd guess Coronavirus would be described as some kind of vengeance by religious theologians. Not only are people dying, but the ones who are left can't life a life of excess.

In reality, I see this as natural evolution or Darwinism. The whole point of a virus is that it kills the old and weak, leaving the strongest to survive (and breed) as well as then having fewer mouth's to feed. Not nice to think of, but that's just how nature works.

Nature didn't bank on us having a vaccine for most flu strains, so every so often it throws up a new strain.

Also when you think of this virus... potentially infects up to 50% of the population who show zero, or very mild, symptoms. It is actually an extremely effective virus at being transmitted around the population.

Some good points there, although who or what is 'Nature' Is it a
Iiving thinking being who uses its will to control population growth, does it somehow think at a certain point that it's time for a new virus or natural disaster. I do find this theory more difficult to believe than God.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

From a religious point of view, the Old Testament talks of a vengeful god (the rains that caused the floods and Noah's Ark, for example). So I'd guess Coronavirus would be described as some kind of vengeance by religious theologians. Not only are people dying, but the ones who are left can't life a life of excess.

In reality, I see this as natural evolution or Darwinism. The whole point of a virus is that it kills the old and weak, leaving the strongest to survive (and breed) as well as then having fewer mouth's to feed. Not nice to think of, but that's just how nature works.

Nature didn't bank on us having a vaccine for most flu strains, so every so often it throws up a new strain.

Also when you think of this virus... potentially infects up to 50% of the population who show zero, or very mild, symptoms. It is actually an extremely effective virus at being transmitted around the population.

...the theologians would say that the New Testament God as taught by Christ, is a God of love - a God that suffers with us and for us as we suffer as a result of things of our own (humanities) making, and of events (especially those of nature) out of our control - as really well set out by SR, Wolf and Hobbit.

At times such as this all my God can do for me (and anyone who asks) is help me to see the best that I can do for myself, for my family and for all others I might be able to help and support at this time - and to accept the things I cannot change (that last bit can be a challenge at times )

 

[Bazzatron]

I'm a Sikh and seeing what the local temple is doing by delivering meals to the elderly who can't get out and the homeless who can't get a hot meal as they usually do in the temple everyday makes me quite happy that there are people who follow their religion for good and with the sole purpose of helping others who are less fortunate than they are.

 

[IanM]

Some wonderful things are done within the guidance of religious teachings, while plenty of atrocities have also been done in the name of religion.

Neither of which proves or disproves the validity of religion or the existence/non existence of God. Similarly, I don't think the occurrence of disasters does either.

.....and I see the fight against the virus as a tangible human based activity. (although you may consider great acts or knowledge as having external guidance! I just wish I knew for sure!!)

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Can I just take a minute to thank everyone who contributed in such a mature manner today, it is very much appreciated.

And thanks also to those who wanted to post, but thought that their post might have incurred “The Wrath of Fragger”, thank you also for biting your collective lips and holding fire.

It can be done ??

 

[Old Skier]

1. The first line is a myth, there has been many more wars over land-grabs, race, ethnicity, politics and many other reasons than religion.

Try thinking of how many wars over religion there were and you will start to struggle to get into double figures given 5 minutes, when over the others you can go on and on and generally anything BC wasnt over religion.

2. Great quote.

I agree with your post but would only say that many wars have been fought and used religion as an excuse and double figures could well be reached and that's where some of the myths come from.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Religion , faith , God - it’s always a very emotive subject and one that there is no right or wrong answer

I was brought up by a catholic mother , went to church and then went to a catholic boarding school for a bit - I never had much belief in what I was been told , there always seem to be so many contradictions and there always seemed to be someone who used “religion” and god as an excuse to exert power and indeed suffering on many - maybe millions

Crusades , Islamic fundamentalists - all through history there are small elements who use religion to create wars etc

Spending time in the gulf and speaking for followers of Islam and it’s the same wigh Christianity - they are all peaceful teachings and ways of life , it’s all about being kind to one another and respecting one another , just a shame some interpretation of a humans writings are twisted to their own meaning.

I dont believe anything in regards the bible or indeed any other religious scripts

But I do believe people should faith in something - love , life , happiness , sadness , caring , hatred - all feelings that imo rely on people’s faith in something , even if it’s just what they see in front of their eyes.

It all boils down to respecting that people see the world differently , some people find happiness in thinking there is god , a god that isn’t there to stop all evils but maybe just someone they can talk to privately and it gives them a bit a reassuration in life.

Unfortunately the world will always have the zealots and fundamentalists who will give religion a bad name , and the debate will always rage on - but I will and I hope everyone does will respect someone’s right to have faith in something.

 

[drdel]

I was brought up in the CoE, even being a choir boy!!

My wife was a very firm believer. In her early 40's although being very fit she had stroke: two very young children and she slowly went down hill and died after 11 years. Her religious friends used to visit and after each visit she would blame herself that she was being punished, not worthy and had night mares !! I eventually tried to prevent them coming to the house.

Why would any God put a person through such pain and make young innocent kids live through that ??

 

[Liverbirdie]

I agree with your post but would only say that many wars have been fought and used religion as an excuse and double figures could well be reached and that's where some of the myths come from.

I agree, but I did give a 5 minute deadline.

Its like Northern Ireland, most would say its catholics vs proddies, but I feel its nationalists vs Unionists, although admittedly it does also follow the religious lines, as well.

 

[SocketRocket]

I was brought up in the CoE, even being a choir boy!!

My wife was a very firm believer. In her early 40's although being very fit she had stroke: two very young children and she slowly went down hill and died after 11 years. Her religious friends used to visit and after each visit she would blame herself that she was being punished, not worthy and had night mares !! I eventually tried to prevent them coming to the house.

Why would any God put a person through such pain and make young innocent kids live through that ??

Sorry to hear that, it must have been an awful time for you both.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I was brought up in the CoE, even being a choir boy!!

My wife was a very firm believer. In her early 40's although being very fit she had stroke: two very young children and she slowly went down hill and died after 11 years. Her religious friends used to visit and after each visit she would blame herself that she was being punished, not worthy and had night mares !! I eventually tried to prevent them coming to the house.

Why would any God put a person through such pain and make young innocent kids live through that ??

So sorry to read that.
Compared to some of the stories I read on here, I realise how lucky I have been.
All the best to you and your children

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Can I just take a minute to thank everyone who contributed in such a mature manner today, it is very much appreciated.

And thanks also to those who wanted to post, but thought that their post might have incurred “The Wrath of Fragger”, thank you also for biting your collective lips and holding fire.

It can be done ??

I'll add a personal +1 to that.

On belief and faith...I had said for many years (50 or so) that I had a belief in God...after all it was what I was brought up with and my Church of Scotland was a nice and fun place to be and to be part of.

But it has been only relatively recently that I came to understand the very significant difference between saying I had a belief in a God - and my actually having a faith in a God. I realised that whilst I said I believed - I actually didn't actually understand what having a faith meant.

Well I suppose I had to have a belief first...

I was chatting with one of our Sunday School teachers - she was struggling with young Benny - a very bright, inquisitive and scientific-minded 10yr old. He wasn't getting the 'God thing'. I suggested asking about Black Holes, Benny will know about these.

How did the astronomers and astrophysicists discover them? We now believe in them, we believe - we know - them to exist. But how did we get to that point. Well - I suggested - the astronomers noticed motion patterns of stars and areas of nothingness that they just couldn't explain - something that they couldn't see or explain was having a significant impact. They hypothesised that there must be something that affects the behaviour of everything in it's vicinity. They stuck with that idea and that it must be gravity or something like that pulling everything in the galactic near-vicinity into it, and not letting it go - and they called it a Black Hole.

We still can't really see them. And we still can't fully explain them. But the astronomers and scientists have told us they exist, and we believe it to be so, and to stretch to the next step - the astronomers and astrophysicists have sufficient 'faith' in what they have defined for a Black Hole to build their further investigations upon what they have come to believe and define.

And I suggested that my God is a bit like that. I can't see my God, I can't physically describe my God, I have no idea whatsoever where my God has come from - but I have seen the positive impact on the lives of many people that having a belief, and then having a faith in a God (or some form of Higher Power) can have. And that helped me move from having a belief, to having a faith.

I have no idea whether it cut much ice with Benny

As @Fish (I think it was in an earlier post) suggested - we all have faith of some sort for all sorts of things - but perhaps closest to home for all of us - without faith we could not risk the vulnerability of love.

 

[Fish]

Do I get a gold star or a free infraction pass for a positive MID ?

 

[PhilTheFragger]

No, now you have to wear a hair shirt for a week and beat yourself with a wet lettuce ??

 

[Old Skier]

I agree, but I did give a 5 minute deadline.

Its like Northern Ireland, most would say its catholics vs proddies, but I feel its nationalists vs Unionists, although admittedly it does also follow the religious lines, as well.

Didn't stop both sides throwing rocks at me.

 

[bobmac]

Generally speaking I have absolutely no time for religion. As long as you’re happy in your view (whatever it is) and don’t try to convert me to it, I really don’t know why people get so worked up by it.

Fortunately we dont live in America where religion has a much bigger impact on how people live