Coronavirus and Religion Discuss

[bobmac]

Probably because (as a neutral) I see you as an atheist/agnostic/total non-believer and any post you make on religion I instantly read it with suspicion.

Not saying I’m correct, but I’d put you as the total opposite to SILH and his beliefs. ?‍

Some people believe there is a God with no evidence (faith)
If they had evidence they wouldn't need faith
I want evidence before I will believe there is a God.
I want my damascus road.
Until then, when theists ask me ''where did we come from?, my reply is I don't know and I don't claim to know.
Theists don't know either but they claim to know.
God did it
My question is if God created everything, then he must have created coronavirus
Is it a punishment like the flood?
If not, how can he stand by and watch thousands die. Good people. Heatbreaking
My only answer, unless someone can prove otherwise, is there is no God

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Ok Bob
Tell you what I will do
I’ll transfer the above posts to the recently closed thread on religion and corona and you can see who can give you some answers.

But if it starts to go south, it will be closed again

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Reopened
Please only post if you have something constructive to add

 

[bobmac]

Thanks Phil.

 

[Hobbit]

All I want to know is
What do you believe
Why do you believe it
Why should I believe it.
I'd love to believe in god again but there is just so much contradiction with science and what's in the bible

First of all Bob, I genuinely don't want to do this on the open forum for the reasons stated previously. There'll be some muppet throwing in 1 liners about deluded and sky fairies etc. But out of courtesy I will answer, but almost as briefly as you've asked.

What do I believe? I believe there is something, note something, that came first. Something that lit the gas that caused the big bang. The maths and the science is irrefutable up to a point, and then it becomes theory. And whilst there is theory, there are other theories not proven or disproven too.

Why do I believe? Probably a combination of an Irish Catholic upbringing and a belief that until proven otherwise I think its possible. I know that sounds a little trite but isn't that what faith is? Bearing in mind how information and beliefs passed around the world 2000 years ago, how come this one travelled so well? Countries developed at different rates? The dark ages interrupted so much intellectual development but why did religion travel so well? Why did a bible written in 'x' country mirror the same in 'y' country so well when movement was virtually non-existent? As for the bible in a literal sense. Its not really great is it? But as a Highway Code of how to behave its actually pretty damn good - did I really say damn?

And if God doesn't exist, I'm happy that I've used a (relatively)universal code of conduct that has, even with my obvious failings, served me so well.

What should you believe? I can't answer that for you. I only hope that whatever you believe in, you are comfortable and content with and it doesn't cause you to question yourself.

As for the contradictions between science and the bible, you need a theologian. You're intelligent enough to ask them searching questions and to analyse their answers well enough to give you the contentment either way.

There's a million and one questions beyond that, and feel free to take it to PM.

 

[bobmac]

I guess my question is
How do you keep your faith when terrible things happen and thousands of good, innocent people die every day?
And I'm sorry, I won't accept mysterious ways.
I'm sure you're all praying as hard as you can but still they die

 

[Hobbit]

I guess my question is
How do you keep your faith when terrible things happen and thousands of good, innocent people die every day?
And I'm sorry, I won't accept mysterious ways.
I'm sure you're all praying as hard as you can but still they die

Sorry Bob but I won't answer on the open forum. More than happy to take it to pm.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I guess my question is
How do you keep your faith when terrible things happen and thousands of good, innocent people die every day?
And I'm sorry, I won't accept mysterious ways.
I'm sure you're all praying as hard as you can but still they die

I would only ask why it bothers you?

If someone wishes to live believing in God and someone wishes to live believing in nothing, then good luck to both.

I like to believe there is something after this life as it helps ME deal with loss, and regardless of point of view nobody will ever convince me either way.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

This thread has been reopened to allow a grown up discussion on religion

Please only post on this thread if you have something constructive to add

Infractions will be given to those who try to derail it, (One just given)

 

[jim8flog]

I was giving this a lot of thought.

Is this really God's wrath? As he is so disappointed with what we have done with the planet.

If you believe in God, the Ten Commandments and Moses then will also believe that he brought the plague before because he did not like what was happening.

 

[USER1999]

i am not convinced there is a god.

However, organised religion is proved to be a good thing, in providing community, longer life, greater welbeing. People are happier, and live longer believing in something.

Entropy seems to be at odds with evolution. Beings are becoming more complicated, rather than less so.

It's an interesting conundrum.

There is no answer but an open mind.

 

[jim8flog]

Similarly if you believe in mother nature is this her way of having a natural correction because of what overcrowding is doing to the planet.

 

[bobmac]

Its not really great is it? But as a Highway Code of how to behave its actually pretty damn good - did I really say damn?

That's my biggest problem.
If God wrote it on your heart to be good then why do non believers do good things?
And why do church folk do bad things?

I was brought up to believe in God and the bible and I did and I listened to all the good stuff.
Then I discovered the 10 commandments were in the old testament.
When I asked, I was told not to read the old testament
So of course I did.
Holy moly
Wow, was I in for a shock.
So I have to disagree that it is a good moral lesson on how to behave.
I was told never to judge or question the bible, it's all true.
So you shouldn't cherry pick the nice fluffy bits and ignore the slaying, the stoning and the slavery.
It's all or nothing.

Don't get me wrong, there's lots of good stuff in the bible but there is also some serious rubbish.

Finally, if you look up the word 'Godless' in the dictionary, you get
wicked, evil, sinful.
Is that true if you don't believe?
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/godless

Just a few of my many problems with the Bible

 

[USER1999]

but can you not take the bible as gospel, but believe in a higher being?

The bible, koran, talmud, are just books, advising on a better way. Something to base a way of living on.

They get twisted by bigots, for sure, but in general, they are just books. Old ones, for sure, but just books.

To me, organised religion is to subdue the masses. Made by rich people, to protect what is theirs. Yep, you poor people, slave away, and be obedient, and you will get your reward in heaven.

That said, as posted earlier, I have interests in why evolution differs from entropy, and am reserving judgement. Believe in what you want to

 

[Captainron]

I’ve no problem with living life and being good to others but putting credence in this common sense by allocating it to a god is absurd to me.

 

[USER1999]

That might be your opinion but it certainly isn't proven. Quite the reverse, in my opinion, speaking of "organised" religion specifically.

Faith/spirituality is another matter and if someone can gain some psychological benefit from it good luck to them.

Yor highlighting that bit of my text, takes it out of context. It is a fact that communal get togethers, singing, belief, a common cause, is a good thing. It just is.

I get that organised religion in a different context, crusades for instance, or jihad, is not. That is not what I meant.

 

[bobmac]

If someone wishes to live believing in God and someone wishes to live believing in nothing, then good luck to both.

Just because I'm not convinced there is a God doesn't mean I believe in nothing.
But a God who stands by and lets 1000s of people die every day from this virus isn't getting my vote.

I'm just looking for the truth.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I have a MiL that is evangelical to the point of Billy Graham, and I freely admit her constant forcing of "god this, god that" has driven any remains of religous belief away. I see religion more as something people hold on to as they age because they fear there might actually be nothing when we die.
Similarly I fail to see how every religion can claim to be the "one", with their god "the" god and everyone else an imposter.
However I also accept we are free human beings, and as such are free to believe what we like. I only ask that those who take the belief of a religion restrain from telling me how god has "a plan" for me and my life.
I try and practice the ways of "do unto others etc etc" . Sometimes I get it wrong, but I hope I dont in general. I don't need a higher being to tell me though.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Just because I'm not convinced there is a God doesn't mean I believe in nothing.
But a God who stands by and lets 1000s of people die every day from this virus isn't getting my vote.

I'm just looking for the truth.

I just think you asked a loaded question, and very much doubt that anyone on a golf forum could give you a "road to Damascus" epiphany.

How can any one of us deliver a "truth" to you on here?

If you do, I think you are the deluded one.

 

[bobmac]

I just think you asked a loaded question, and very much doubt that anyone on a golf forum could give you a "road to Damascus" epiphany.

How can any one of us deliver a "truth" to you on here?

If you do, I think you are the deluded one.

I'm not the one who believes in talking snakes, the global flood and the earth is 6,000 years old, like I was taught.
If there is a God then he will know what will convince me he is real. So far, nothing.