That could equally be flipped to, "pity the UK isn't more religious..." Just saying, for a friend.
That could equally be flipped to, "pity the UK isn't more religious..." Just saying, for a friend.
chrisd
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Nothing worse than not being liked by anyone ! ??
Liverbirdie
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bobmac
Major Champion
Do we really want people like this shyster in our churchs hoovering up your tax free money?
IanM
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oh well...that's fixed the crisis then... golf tomorrow anyone?(the stooge on the right is good)
Foxholer
Blackballed
Not a bad (attempt at an) analogy, but not one that really works either unfortunately.I'll add a personal +1 to that.
On belief and faith...I had said for many years (50 or so) that I had a belief in God...after all it was what I was brought up with and my Church of Scotland was a nice and fun place to be and to be part of.
But it has been only relatively recently that I came to understand the very significant difference between saying I had a belief in a God - and my actually having a faith in a God. I realised that whilst I said I believed - I actually didn't actually understand what having a faith meant.
Well I suppose I had to have a belief first...
I was chatting with one of our Sunday School teachers - she was struggling with young Benny - a very bright, inquisitive and scientific-minded 10yr old. He wasn't getting the 'God thing'. I suggested asking about Black Holes, Benny will know about these.
How did the astronomers and astrophysicists discover them? We now believe in them, we believe - we know - them to exist. But how did we get to that point. Well - I suggested - the astronomers noticed motion patterns of stars and areas of nothingness that they just couldn't explain - something that they couldn't see or explain was having a significant impact. They hypothesised that there must be something that affects the behaviour of everything in it's vicinity. They stuck with that idea and that it must be gravity or something like that pulling everything in the galactic near-vicinity into it, and not letting it go - and they called it a Black Hole.
We still can't really see them. And we still can't fully explain them. But the astronomers and scientists have told us they exist, and we believe it to be so, and to stretch to the next step - the astronomers and astrophysicists have sufficient 'faith' in what they have defined for a Black Hole to build their further investigations upon what they have come to believe and define.
And I suggested that my God is a bit like that. I can't see my God, I can't physically describe my God, I have no idea whatsoever where my God has come from - but I have seen the positive impact on the lives of many people that having a belief, and then having a faith in a God (or some form of Higher Power) can have. And that helped me move from having a belief, to having a faith.
I have no idea whether it cut much ice with Benny
As @Fish (I think it was in an earlier post) suggested - we all have faith of some sort for all sorts of things - but perhaps closest to home for all of us - without faith we could not risk the vulnerability of love.
With the likes of Black Holes, it's quite possible to predict their effects and, in the vastness of our universe, search for and observe those effects. That cannot happen with 'faith'. You either have it or you don't!
Of course we don't. Did I say we did, or even mention the U.S.? Personally, I don't care whether it is or it isn't more religious, only that we have a caring society. How anyone achieves that is up to them.
One of the things worth bearing in mind when considering religion is pretty much every sect is a human construct, and the structures and practices the same. Would I enjoy going to a service and spending time sitting on a hard, upright bench or kneeling on a hard, wooden footstool? As for listening to a sermon...
Apart from my initial answer, when I said I was raised a Catholic, I've not mentioned any sect, God or religion. I don't view Christianity as being any better than any religion, nor the only religion. And using the same explanation I gave you previously about proof, the same applies to all religions.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
My analogy was simply based upon the time when astrophysicists first saw the effects of something that they could not see nor describe, and that they did not understand. We have since built an understanding of what is going on. But at first we didn't have much of a clue...a hypothesis was set out and we worked to understand and prove the hypothesis. And today our understanding of Black Holes (as we understand them) is pretty good and predictable.
Also kind of like when astronomers tell us that there must be another planet or other body out there - not because we can see it or describe it - but because of the way the unknown body affects the movement, paths and orbits of other planets and galactic stuff.
And so when I actually see how something has affected and changed the lives of others in a very positive way (and they call it a belief and faith in a God of their own understanding), I might then choose to conclude that as something unseen is working for them somehow - then I might as well give it a go. And the truth is that, in certain contexts, for many having a faith in something it is actually possible to predict what can happen to the way the individual lives their life.
BTW - that doesn't mean deliberately exposing yourself to risk (see coronavirus) and having faith in your God that all will inevitably be just tickety-boo. Doesn't work that way (for me anyway) .
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bobmac
Major Champion
Apologies
When you said my statement could be flipped, I thought you meant its a shame we're not more like America and their religious ways, which is why I brought up Kenneth Copeland.
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