CONGU Club Handicaps

bluewolf said:
Why does it matter to you, or anyone else what Phil (and apparently most at his club) want?
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It doesn’t matter to me in the slightest what is done or not done at Phil’s club, but it interests me what his and his other club members’ thinking is that leads to what seems on the surface to be being an unwillingness to grasp and make use of the potential of the Club Handicap as a positive development for those early in game who have not improved sufficiently to come down to 28/36 and for those whose game has declined beyond 28.

bluewolf said:
I'm not overly keen on handicaps over 28.. If you can't play to 28, then the first priority is either to try and improve, or play comps off 28 and "play against yourself".
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Sadly, that is more that just “slightly patronising”, it really just says, “Stuff you, if you aren’t good enough to play to 28. I’m all right, Jack, I can.”
 
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I'm all for higher handicaps, it has to help grow the game and to keep players who no longer can play to 28. It works well in NZ and can see no reason why it couldn't here.

I quote Gemma Hunter, England Golf’s handicap and course ratings manager, from this article http://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/articles/article/handicap-changes-we-ask-the-expert.html

A major change is giving clubs the opportunity to offer members handicaps above the current limits of 28 for men and 36 for women. The handicaps will only be used at the player’s club and are not CONGU-approved, so how will this help beginners?

It’s going to get your beginners playing more, hopefully in an environment better suited to their ability. We know there are a lot of people out there on 28 handicap who have never played to it. They join a golf club, they get a CONGU handicap and the club says ‘go and play’.

We think golf clubs should say: “Look, you are not quite there yet, we are going to give you a higher handicap, go play with this higher handicap group, and when you are ready you can play.”

You won’t get a CONGU handicap, that limit will stay at 28, but the club can have its own handicapping system for beginners, just like the one juniors currently have, and that will help people achieve their targets.

The idea is, if we can get people playing golf more often, that’s the key. You can get someone who’s at the driving range, make the step on to academy course and a club can give them something to aim for.

If the target is unachievable – for example, you’ve been given handicap 28 but you can never play to it – you are going to get disheartened, you are not going to play and eventually you are going to give up.

Phil I see your club promotes itself as " A Traditional golf club with a progressive outlook " and has two outstanding programs to encourage new golfers into the game and the club which is brilliant.
However if I'm reading your comments and those of your members correctly are you saying when members from the academy wanted to become full members you will not be allocating a handicap above 28 ?
 
upsidedown said:
I'm all for higher handicaps, it has to help grow the game and to keep players who no longer can play to 28. It works well in NZ and can see no reason why it couldn't here.

I quote Gemma Hunter, England Golf’s handicap and course ratings manager, from this article http://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/articles/article/handicap-changes-we-ask-the-expert.html

A major change is giving clubs the opportunity to offer members handicaps above the current limits of 28 for men and 36 for women. The handicaps will only be used at the player’s club and are not CONGU-approved, so how will this help beginners?

It’s going to get your beginners playing more, hopefully in an environment better suited to their ability. We know there are a lot of people out there on 28 handicap who have never played to it. They join a golf club, they get a CONGU handicap and the club says ‘go and play’.

We think golf clubs should say: “Look, you are not quite there yet, we are going to give you a higher handicap, go play with this higher handicap group, and when you are ready you can play.”

You won’t get a CONGU handicap, that limit will stay at 28, but the club can have its own handicapping system for beginners, just like the one juniors currently have, and that will help people achieve their targets.

The idea is, if we can get people playing golf more often, that’s the key. You can get someone who’s at the driving range, make the step on to academy course and a club can give them something to aim for.

If the target is unachievable – for example, you’ve been given handicap 28 but you can never play to it – you are going to get disheartened, you are not going to play and eventually you are going to give up.

Phil I see your club promotes itself as " A Traditional golf club with a progressive outlook " and has two outstanding programs to encourage new golfers into the game and the club which is brilliant.
However if I'm reading your comments and those of your members correctly are you saying when members from the academy wanted to become full members you will not be allocating a handicap above 28 ?
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The main people through the academy are juniors who get a junior HC and ladies - the ladies from the academy when they become a playing member then put three cards in - all of them have achieved HC better than 36 with 3 of them in the 20's.

We have a few new guys recently joined - one through the academy - after 6 months when becoming a member he put three cards in and was given 22.

The academy program which has proved very successful has provided the players a very good grounding to gain a club HC.

One lady after 6 months struggled to get a 36 HC so she didn't put cards in put played with the ladies and just forgot about HC and just got confident playing - after another 3 months she put in 3 cards and got 32 HC - never seen her so happy.

Our Academy had proved the club with a lot of new golfers and all have progressed through without needing a HC above the current limits

The only exceptions are the junior who gain junior HC and use them until the Junior organiser and myself are happy they are at a level to gain a full HC.
 
rulefan said:
Playing off a club handicap give a player a measure to check his performance. The handicap can only go down as a result of qualifying rounds it gives improving players an achievable target in a 'sociable' competition environment.
Playing against yourself hardly helps to integrate new players into a club.
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The "playing against yourself" comment meant that the player was playing to improve on previous scores. They can still play in groups. It's a social game.

And why does having a "club" handicap indicate improvement any better than simply attempting to beat previous scores? It doesn't. It's a false construction that offers nothing other than window dressing. The game doesn't get any easier by assigning a number.

If a player wants to play in Comps then just play off 28. If a player wants to win Comps, then try to improve. Taking away the motivation to improve does nothing to move the game forward. Where does it stop? If more people aren't playing in 20 years, do we increase the number to 50? 60?
 
Colin L said:
Sadly, that is more that just “slightly patronising”, it really just says, “Stuff you, if you aren’t good enough to play to 28. I’m all right, Jack, I can.”
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That's your opinion of what you think I meant. It's wrong, but it's your opinion and you're welcome to it.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
You don't have to assign a CDH number when a club HC is raised - the CDH number can be raised once the player gets to 28 HC and an official Congu HC
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Going back to the original scenario .

Today I did a test entering a member on our system Club Systems and as it was a completely new member a CDH No is automatically allocated no matter what handicap they are.

This is handy in our county because our free county cards are only available to members with a CDH No whereas if LPs has found a way not to allocate a CDH No as per his above post and if his club was within our county it would mean he was disenfranchising his membership by not allocating a CDH No.

This is obviously academic as he, his committee and membership for whatever reason have refused to adopt the club handicap system.
 
Old Skier said:
Going back to the original scenario .

Today I did a test entering a member on our system Club Systems and as it was a completely new member a CDH No is automatically allocated no matter what handicap they are.

This is handy in our county because our free county cards are only available to members with a CDH No whereas if LPs has found a way not to allocate a CDH No as per his above post and if his club was within our county it would mean he was disenfranchising his membership by not allocating a CDH No.

This is obviously academic as he, his committee and membership for whatever reason have refused to adopt the club handicap system.
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It's not "refusing" to do anything so please phrase it correctly

It's a choice that every club can make of their own free will and it's our choice to continue as we are. And "disenfranchising" the membership ?!? Please do behave.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
It's not "refusing" to do anything so please phrase it correctly

It's a choice that every club can make of their own free will and it's our choice to continue as we are. And "disenfranchising" the membership ?!? Please do behave.
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If, as you say, you are able to add a new member without issuing a CDH No, you would be disenfranchising a member in our county as they would not be able to apply for the free county card.
 
Old Skier said:
If, as you say, you are able to add a new member without issuing a CDH No, you would be disenfranchising a member in our county as they would not be able to apply for the free county card.
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Every single member at our club has a CDH so as I said please do not make judgments.
 
Old Skier said:
A good move but I think clubs now need to fully educate members and have procedures to deal with players who move around.
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I think many club and handicap secretaries need to be fully educated and have procedures to deal with players who move around.
 
rulefan said:
I think many club and handicap secretaries need to be fully educated and have procedures to deal with players who move around.
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Why what's different compared to last two years ? Playing moving gives CDH number - on the system it goes.
 
rulefan said:
I think many club and handicap secretaries need to be fully educated and have procedures to deal with players who move around.
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Agreed. Having been a victim of a handicap committee who most certainly did not understand the rules and negatively affected my game for nearly 2 years after moving clubs.
 
Old Skier said:
You obviously havnt had a problem with

Asking a player who joins your club what his CDH No is and being met with a blank stare.

Spent time on the phone trying to get clubs to release players of their systems.
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Nope not had a problem and if they can't get then just search directly on CDH or via Club Systems.

It's all part of the new member joining process.
 
Old Skier said:
i appreciate they can be recovered from the system but it would be nice if players understood what was trying to be achieved using CDH Nos
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In the grand scheme of things not many would be bothered but over the last couple of years we have had a lot of members joining and 99% have all arrived with CDH number and the process of moving them across has been smooth
 
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