CONGU Club Handicaps

[Old Skier]

Ok, so in simple terms. What does this scheme hope to achieve?

In simple terms without going into the rights/wrongs/different views, move the uk to use the same handicaps as the rest of the world. It must be one of the few sports where the rules change from country to country.

 

[davemc1]

Support and encouragement to do what though? I've spent much of the last 2 years at the bottom of most leaderboards due to a handicap I can't play to. I can't remember not enjoying the game, nor complaining that my handicap should be raised artificially.

And no this is not the "rant" of a lower 'capper against higher 'cappers. I just don't see the actual benefit of it. If you need to be near the top of a leaderboard to enjoy the game then you're focusing on the wrong thing in my opinion.

Try saying that if you're bottom of the leader board at S&A :rofl:

 

[Old Skier]

My issue with the scheme is that it's half baked. It doesn't fully fix the issue at all.

Correct, they should be full CONGU handicaps.

 

[upsidedown]

Correct, they should be full CONGU handicaps.

Hear hear :thup:

 

[bluewolf]

Try saying that if you're bottom of the leader board at S&A :rofl:

Theyre talking about competitive fields mate. You and Podge are most definitely not what they had in mind 😂

Correct, they should be full CONGU handicaps.

It would be better than the current system (even though I still disagree with it, but I can see both sides)

 

[Old Skier]

To be honest I had more problems with low and mid handicap players that needed to go up than sorting out those that should be recommended for a club handicap .

I can see issues with the reverse ESR when players are reviewed to go up.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

My point is that they don't complain, they just turn up. To me the introduction of club handicaps is no different to the general introduction of handicaps in the dim and distant past. The handicap system generally intends to make the game enjoyable and competitive for all, and that means for the guy in single figures, the mid-handicapper and the 28/36 plus handicapper.

None of the players I mentioned are likely to top the leaderboard but it will give a little encouragement.

Maybe it's just our club but we don't have very many 28 HC - also the people at the bottom of the Leaderboard are very rarely the same people week in week out.

I could think of one person who plays in midweek qualifiers but won't play to 28 because of illness - there is no way he would want to be higher than 28 but beyond him then no one else springs to mind.

 

[bluewolf]

To be honest I had more problems with low and mid handicap players that needed to go up than sorting out those that should be recommended for a club handicap .

I can see issues with the reverse ESR when players are reviewed to go up.

I went up 1 this year by ESR... Fully deserved to be honest after a rank season.. Anyone who doesn't agree with it is just seeking a vanity handicap...

 

[Colin L]

To be honest I had more problems with low and mid handicap players that needed to go up than sorting out those that should be recommended for a club handicap .

I can see issues with the reverse ESR when players are reviewed to go up.

I’m not sure why you need to sort out those that should be “recommended” for a Club Handicap. It’s up to the players. Anyone on an exact handicap of 28 can ask for one. The only check I see as being necessary is that their last competition score would have resulted in a .1 increase. Anyone without a handicap or reinstating a handicap who submits scores which result in a possible handicap of over 28 or more has the choice of a competition CONGU Handicap of 28 or a CONGU Club Handicap of whatever the best adjusted score results in.

Am I seeing it differently from you?

 

[rulefan]

I went up 1 this year by ESR... Fully deserved to be honest after a rank season.. Anyone who doesn't agree with it is just seeking a vanity handicap...

ESR - Exceptional Score Reduction. How did you manage to go UP ?

 

[Old Skier]

I’m not sure why you need to sort out those that should be “recommended” for a Club Handicap. It’s up to the players.

It's not completely up to the player, it may depend on their record and as most members weren't aware of the new rules nobody came asking.

In sorted I meant assessed the players record and discussed with the player whether they would like a club handicap of greater than 28 and inform them of the consequences.

 

[rulefan]

as most members weren't aware of the new rules nobody came asking.

I suspect that will be true of most clubs.

I have been asked to talk to our seniors tomorrow afternoon re CONGU changes with particular reference to Club caps and 7 consecutive 0.1s. Quite a number of other members have asked to come along.

 

[Old Skier]

and 7 consecutive 0.1s.

I wonder how many clubs ignore this like they have ESRs. Why oh why didn't CONGU make it so the software just did it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I wonder how many clubs ignore this like they have ESRs. Why oh why didn't CONGU make it so the software just did it.

Because it's something that can be manipulated - people can go searching for shots back or it could just be someone on a poor run of fun - it's good to have human interaction to ensure an extra shot or in the case of an ESR is the right move for that person. An automated computer can't do that.

 

[Old Skier]

Because it's something that can be manipulated - people can go searching for shots back or it could just be someone on a poor run of fun - it's good to have human interaction to ensure an extra shot or in the case of an ESR is the right move for that person. An automated computer can't do that.

Having seen it manipulated in favour of a certain clubs 1st team (ESR) I tend to disagree. Especially as CONGU reps on the ESR implementation specifically asked for clubs to accept any ESRs that occurred .

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Having seen it manipulated in favour of a certain clubs 1st team (ESR) I tend to disagree. Especially as CONGU reps on the ESR implementation specifically asked for clubs to accept any ESRs that occurred .

Again yes they ask for it to be implemented and if you know someone has manipulated then I hope you did something about it

ESI etc have opened the door for people to manipulate to get their HC high so as with ESR it should be left to the judgement of the HC sec with Congu putting forward their recommendations

 

[Old Skier]

Again yes they ask for it to be implemented and if you know someone has manipulated then I hope you did something about it

ESI etc have opened the door for people to manipulate to get their HC high so as with ESR it should be left to the judgement of the HC sec with Congu putting forward their recommendations

Perhaps I'm more trusting than some on these issues and my experience has been that most manipulation seems to be from those who prefer their handicap to go down.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Perhaps I'm more trusting than some on these issues and my experience has been that most manipulation seems to be from those who prefer their handicap to go down.

So this manipulation you saw was what ?

 

[Old Skier]

So this manipulation you saw was what ?

2 Players who came up for an ESR but were representing their club in a county comp. No action taken, the county it occurred in didn't or couldn't take any action as it's not mandatory, so who are all this chaps that are trying to manipulate their handicaps up. I presume it's something you have spotted at your club since you joined your handicap committee.

 

[Old Skier]

So this manipulation you saw was what ?

Or if your on about people trying to reduce their handicap they appear to have some great scores in supplementary cards but don't manage to cut the mustard in a comp.