CONGU Club Handicaps

[Old Skier]

Because most have gone to 5 day members and we only have one comp a month during the week

Looks like we are fairly lucky then with an active seniors section who love their competitive golf with a comp every Tuesday and matches v other clubs during the month. We only have 2 guys playing on more than 28 apart from those on disability handicaps (another 2) so it's not much of a deal.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

CONGU has recognised the needs of a large number of golfers - beginners and finishers - who have no meaningful handicap, who therefore have no competitions to enter and no easy way to deal with ability differences in that commonest form of club golf - informal matchplay among friends. Figures for the numbers of players on each different handicap show a fairly normal distribution curve up to 1 below maximum. The number of men on a 28 handicap is way out of proportion while the number of women on 36 is hugely out of proportion. That makes one group of players for the majority of whom, the CONGU handicap is of no use. Add to that players with lapsed handicaps and no handicaps at all. It’s quite a group to be “disenfranchised” and this new handicap should ensure that it has the same opportunities to enjoy competitive golf as those with 28/36 and below. Tie all of this in with the increased opportunities for 9 hole qualifying rounds and you see the direction CONGU is moving in.

I think it’s a great opportunity.

Sorry but I have to disagree in regards the increase in higher HC - I think it's just a next step to allow HC to go even higher and it's a direction I think won't encourage people to improve but will encourage people to get higher HC to win.

It's not a move I agree with

The committee made the decision after speaking to a great amount of membership and not one person has said its the wrong choice to make

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Looks like we are fairly lucky then with an active seniors section who love their competitive golf with a comp every Tuesday and matches v other clubs during the month. We only have 2 guys playing on more than 28 apart from those on disability handicaps (another 2) so it's not much of a deal.

Each club will react to what their membership wants - as we have.

 

[rulefan]

Sorry but I have to disagree in regards the increase in higher HC - I think it's just a next step to allow HC to go even higher and it's a direction I think won't encourage people to improve but will encourage people to get higher HC to win.

Players with a <29 (CONGU) cap won't be playing against players with a >28 (Club) cap. But they can play in the same group on competition day.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Players with a <29 (CONGU) cap won't be playing against players with a >28 (Club) cap. But they can play in the same group on competition day.

That's entirely up to the club and how they administer their competition. You can have them all playing in the same comp if your clubs desires that to happen.

 

[rulefan]

That's entirely up to the club and how they administer their competition. You can have them all playing in the same comp if your clubs desires that to happen.

Indeed but they won't affect the CSS.

I suspect your club is a bit of an exception. Mine has 5% of men and 25% of ladies eligible for a club handicap.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Indeed but they won't affect the CSS.

I suspect your club is a bit of an exception. Mine has 5% of men and 25% of ladies eligible for a club handicap.

It's not about what players are eligible - it's what the members want -they don't want HC above 28.

 

[Colin L]

It's not about what players are eligible - it's what the members want -they don't want HC above 28.

What was the argument against having a group of members holding handicaps in this higher range and enjoying some competitions just for that group, competitions which are made meaningful by the levelling out afforded by their handicaps?

I don’t want a handicap above my current 17 never mind 28 but if that’s what age brings, I’ll be looking forward to a Club Handicap Match Play tournament and a few 9 hole stablefords!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What was the argument against having a group of members holding handicaps in this higher range and enjoying some competitions just for that group, competitions which are made meaningful by the levelling out afforded by their handicaps?

Anyone that wants to play in competitions plays in the club comps - there has been zero desire just to create any further competitions for HC that we won't have

No one wants a HC over 28 - it is as simple as that - thankfully the members have no desire to have HC above 28.

Our comp list has actually been reduced to allow more members to play social golf.

 

[Colin L]

Anyone that wants to play in competitions plays in the club comps - there has been zero desire just to create any further competitions for HC that we won't have

No one wants a HC over 28 - it is as simple as that - thankfully the members have no desire to have HC above 28.

Our comp list has actually been reduced to allow more members to play social golf.

And apart from the situation at your club, what is your personal argument against this new type of handicap? You did say

.... I have to disagree in regards the increase in higher HC - I think it's just a next step to allow HC to go even higher and it's a direction I think won't encourage people to improve but will encourage people to get higher HC to win. It's not a move I agree with .....

 

[rulefan]

No one wants a HC over 28 - it is as simple as that -

Handicaps in the rest of the world go up to 54. Oddly (outside the US) the game is expanding there, as opposed to the UK where it is contracting.

Our comp list has actually been reduced to allow more members to play social golf

I wonder if this is because many players can't play to their official handicap. It would be interesting to know if the social groups have their own internal handicap arrangements. Such a concept is very common.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Handicaps in the rest of the world go up to 54. Oddly (outside the US) the game is expanding there, as opposed to the UK where it is contracting.



I wonder if this is because many players can't play to their official handicap. It would be interesting to know if the social groups have their own internal handicap arrangements. Such a concept is very common.

Is the game really expanding because someone can have a 54 HC ?

And you wonder incorrectly - we have a lot of people that just want to play social golf - nothing to do with unable to play to their HC

 

[louise_a]

If their original IDs had already been deleted then they can not be resurrected, so would get new ones.
I can't swear that the actual change has yet been made but they were working on it a short while ago.

The lifetime ID was announced at the CONGU roadshows this year, so will be in effect from the 2016 software update.

 

[Colin L]

Is the game really expanding because someone can have a 54 HC ?

And you wonder incorrectly - we have a lot of people that just want to play social golf - nothing to do with unable to play to their HC

I think you are mistaken in implying that handicaps do not have a place in social golf. The giving and receiving of strokes in bounce matchplay is commonplace and often necessary if the contest is to be realistic. I’d be surprised if it didn’t happen at your club. I see the Club Handicap as being very much relevant to social golf by giving the above 28/36 players the chance of having a known handicap to level things out in their bounce games - virtually all of which will be match play. As rulefan says, many such groups make their own informal handicapping systems. It is arguably better to have handicaps which are CONGU based and consistent throughout the membership.

If you and I, both holding a CONGU Competition Handicap were to meet in match play, would we not calculate how many strokes you would give me or I would give you? Is that not what happens at your club amongst members who similarly hold CONGU Handicaps? Here is an opportunity for all those players who can’t play to 28/36 to do the same. Why deny them that?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think you are mistaken in implying that handicaps do not have a place in social golf. The giving and receiving of strokes in bounce matchplay is commonplace and often necessary if the contest is to be realistic. I’d be surprised if it didn’t happen at your club. I see the Club Handicap as being very much relevant to social golf by giving the above 28/36 players the chance of having a known handicap to level things out in their bounce games - virtually all of which will be match play. As rulefan says, many such groups make their own informal handicapping systems. It is arguably better to have handicaps which are CONGU based and consistent throughout the membership.

I didn't imply anything

I play in various amounts of groups that use their own HC and not one single person in those groups has any wish to go above 28

The club and its members see the HC as above 28 as not needed or wanted

 

[delc]

I didn't imply anything

I play in various amounts of groups that use their own HC and not one single person in those groups has any wish to go above 28

The club and its members see the HC as above 28 as not needed or wanted

I really can't see the problem with club handicaps. We have a few old gents and ladies who can't, and probably never will, break 100/110, so have no chance of ever winning anything with the current h/c limits. Upping the limits will at least give them a bit of a chance in club competitions. I suppose that LP is one of those folks who think that nobody should have a handicap greater than 18!

 

[rulefan]

I really can't see the problem with club handicaps. We have a few old gents and ladies who can't, and probably never will, break 100/110, so have no chance of ever winning anything with the current h/c limits. Upping the limits will at least give them a bit of a chance in club competitions. I suppose that LP is one of those folks who think that nobody should have a handicap greater than 18!

Given the number of clubs that have historic competitions where the handicap limit is set at 18, I suspect that in the days when virtually all clubs had waiting lists, the mantra that 'no one should get more than 12 stroke a hole' was acceptable.

 

[bluewolf]

I really can't see the problem with club handicaps. We have a few old gents and ladies who can't, and probably never will, break 100/110, so have no chance of ever winning anything with the current h/c limits. Upping the limits will at least give them a bit of a chance in club competitions. I suppose that LP is one of those folks who think that nobody should have a handicap greater than 18!

Why does it matter to you, or anyone else what Phil (and apparently most at his club) want?

I'm not overly keen on handicaps over 28.. If you can't play to 28, then the first priority is either to try and improve, or play comps off 28 and "play against yourself".

Manufacturing situations to allow more inclusivity can sometimes appear forced and awkward. And that's how this feels to me. Slightly patronising if I'm honest..

 

[rulefan]

Why does it matter to you, or anyone else what Phil (and apparently most at his club) want?

I'm not overly keen on handicaps over 28.. If you can't play to 28, then the first priority is either to try and improve, or play comps off 28 and "play against yourself".

Manufacturing situations to allow more inclusivity can sometimes appear forced and awkward. And that's how this feels to me. Slightly patronising if I'm honest..

Playing off a club handicap give a player a measure to check his performance. The handicap can only go down as a result of qualifying rounds it gives improving players an achievable target in a 'sociable' competition environment.
Playing against yourself hardly helps to integrate new players into a club.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why does it matter to you, or anyone else what Phil (and apparently most at his club) want?

I'm not overly keen on handicaps over 28.. If you can't play to 28, then the first priority is either to try and improve, or play comps off 28 and "play against yourself".

Manufacturing situations to allow more inclusivity can sometimes appear forced and awkward. And that's how this feels to me. Slightly patronising if I'm honest..

Spot on mate - that's exactly how I feel and indeed our members