Old Skier
Tour Winner
As promised I have contacted our county secretary to get answers on the different course SSS but he has passed it up the chain. This could take some time.
CONGU Club Handicaps
- Thread starter rosecott
- Start date
rulefan
Tour Winner
What have you asked about?
I can probably give you an instant answer though.
I am my County Union Course Rating Chairman and I have two sets of Rating Manuals. One is the "Men's Edition", the other is the "Women's Edition". The only thing in common are the forms to be completed after the course assessment.
The measures for Target Distance, Obstacles etc and the corresponding rating factors/points are quite different. An example is when the 'difficulty' of a bunker is evaluated, the depth standard is different for men and women.
When we rate a set of tees, we rate separately for men and women and get different SSS values (ie Course Ratings).
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Then we may be getting it wrong as (if memory serves) they were only operating from on set of measuring standards.
I am not doubting anything that is being said on this thread, I have just emailed the sec to see if everyone is operating from the same page.
When I get back I will PM you a copy of the email.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Although a mixed team, they may of course only have been rating for the men. The ladies' ratings will have been rated to the USGA formula already.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Good to see that 22 pages later we are back at page 1! (Rulefan's post on page 22)
Colin, and others posting as to why wouldn't a club have club handicaps because it's clearly, and appropriately, inclusive going forwards....
1. If this is the case why didn't CONGU just create cat 5 for men (as it originally proposed)
2. The issues highlighted here, and a few others, all arise because they didn't and the Club Handicap element is a fiasco (arguably it already fully exists under the guise of the Junior club handicap system which doesn't have any age limits).
I really look forward to the day we implement a proper cat 5. There will be personal views, as expressed by the aging gentleman at Phil's club, but that his psychological issue based on the past and shouldn't enter into consideration of the changes needed to take the game forward and bring more people into it.
Ps we haven't introduced club handicaps for the reasons obvious from this, and other, threads.
Colin, and others posting as to why wouldn't a club have club handicaps because it's clearly, and appropriately, inclusive going forwards....
1. If this is the case why didn't CONGU just create cat 5 for men (as it originally proposed)
2. The issues highlighted here, and a few others, all arise because they didn't and the Club Handicap element is a fiasco (arguably it already fully exists under the guise of the Junior club handicap system which doesn't have any age limits).
I really look forward to the day we implement a proper cat 5. There will be personal views, as expressed by the aging gentleman at Phil's club, but that his psychological issue based on the past and shouldn't enter into consideration of the changes needed to take the game forward and bring more people into it.
Ps we haven't introduced club handicaps for the reasons obvious from this, and other, threads.
rosecott
Money List Winner
Well, we had our first Seniors comp on Friday which included 3 competitors with newly acquired Club Handicaps. All three have been regular competitors, playing off 28 and have regularly been firmly at the bottom of the result list. I am pleased to report that their new handicaps produced exactly the result envisaged by their introduction. For all three, if you applied their previous 28 handicaps, achieved the best scores they had ever recorded and one of them even made it into the prize money.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
So basically giving them more shots allowed them to get prizes - I'm sure you will now reduce them back to 28 ? As they can clearly play to it
rosecott
Money List Winner
You misread my post. What I said was that they had achieved their best scores ever if you applied only their previous 28 handicap. They were clearly given some encouragement from their new handicap and played better than they had ever done before - and, if they had played off 28, they would still have been in the lower reaches of the results.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Although we only did 3 it's interesting to see that they now enter the pairs comps as they now feel that they will at least be able to contribute on a few holes.
Colin L
Tour Winner
I can’t answer why CONGU did not introduce a new Cat 5 for men and Cat 6 for women. I just take what is given, the CONGU Club Handicap, see its positive values and like what it might achieve. If there is a better way of achieving the same and more, that does not in any way detract from what the Club Handicap can do or change its value. The Club Handicap opens up possibilities for a group of our members which did not previously exist. If that is a good thing, it remains a good thing even if more and better things could have been achieved by a different solution.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Perhaps the sort of questions that a good golf magazine might be asking in an interview piece with CONGU.
rosecott
Money List Winner
A quick look at the results shows that, if they had still been playing off 28, they would have finished 15th, 29th and 31st out of 35 competitors.
rulefan
Tour Winner
The more interesting question might be, which national union(s)/association(s) voted it down.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Would it make a difference
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Whilst interesting, the reality is the mess that's (temporarily) left over.
There was nothing to stop individual clubs choosing to impose handicap restrictions on their competitions.
It is somewhat horrifying to think what's going to happen with the universal (dream) system implementation - in fact I've given up thinking about it all I'm afraid.
Colin L
Tour Winner
I’m at a loss. What is the universal (dream) system implementation? What is horrifying about a club choosing to include Club Handicap holders in some competitions? Or about introducing a competition or two for that group only?
My thoughts entirely! My club only has a handful of mainly very elderly ladies and gents who cannot play to the maximum competition handicaps, so why not give them a chance of winning sometimes? One is an elderly and very small Japanese guy who plays at a different club to his wife, who is apparently quite a good golfer, due to 'loss of face'. Odd lot the Japanese! :mmm:
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D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Can you ever help yourself in regards generic statements towards nationality and race ?
super hans
Assistant Pro
Whilst I don't think delc is a racist in the true sense of the word, he does say a lot of racially insensitive things, and is probably an accurate representation of his generation. They saw a lot of atrocities during the war at the hands of the Japanese, so its understandable they harbour a little bitterness towards them.
If i could offer a bit of advice delc, don't use ANY proper adjectives when describing people in future, and you'll be fine
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