CONGU Club Handicaps

bluewolf said:
Because I believe that changing the handicap limit, especially in such a half assed way, is the wrong way to go.
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Let's agree to disagree. You've seen the opinions of those for and those against.

I'll just tell you about one of our players who is going to be offered a Club Handicap. He was 84 yesterday and you couldn't find a gentler soul. He will turn up most Tuesdays and Fridays to play in our drawn competitions and never complains about anything. He has, at home, a wife whose health is not very good following a stroke. I know him very well and know that his twice-weekly outing is a blessing and a lifeline for him. He has played in 10 qualifiers this year and his scores have been in the range of 8 to 17 points - and I have not heard of anyone not wanting to play with him, because he is a lovely guy. If having a Club Handicap will encourage him to keep playing, I'm all for it. Even with the Club Handicap on offer, he is never going to get to the top of the leaderboard but I believe it will dispel any doubts he may have about keeping playing.
 
Earlier today I made an informal presentation to the seniors section of my club on relevant changes to the CONGU regulations.

Club handicaps raised a lot of discussion but no objections at all. Those not affected could see no objections as the scores would not affect their handicaps. But those of them who said more thought it a good move.

Of about 20 on 28 were very much in favour. A few though it might make others think them second class.
But when it was pointed out that it could improve their chances of prizes in the 2 from 3 or 3 from 4 roll ups, they immediately turned to the seniors president and asked when it would start. This was applauded by lower cappers when they recognised that they would not be pulled down by the 'can't play to 28ers'.

The club handicap chair has already been approached by players wanting to change.

I am told that the ladies have had a similar response.
 
rosecott said:
Let's agree to disagree. You've seen the opinions of those for and those against.

I'll just tell you about one of our players who is going to be offered a Club Handicap. He was 84 yesterday and you couldn't find a gentler soul. He will turn up most Tuesdays and Fridays to play in our drawn competitions and never complains about anything. He has, at home, a wife whose health is not very good following a stroke. I know him very well and know that his twice-weekly outing is a blessing and a lifeline for him. He has played in 10 qualifiers this year and his scores have been in the range of 8 to 17 points - and I have not heard of anyone not wanting to play with him, because he is a lovely guy. If having a Club Handicap will encourage him to keep playing, I'm all for it. Even with the Club Handicap on offer, he is never going to get to the top of the leaderboard but I believe it will dispel any doubts he may have about keeping playing.
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I know, and have played with, several guys like your friend. They are the lifeblood of any club, and are always welcome to play with me. I have no intention of making the game harder for anyone. However, I do believe that there are better options out there..

How about, off the top of my head, getting rid of the outdated concept of ladies, juniors, mens and competition tees. Leave the handicap limit where it is and allow each member to choose which tee they want their handicap measured from? Total inclusivity at every club in Britain. Lead the World rather than follow it?

Please note, this was an off the cuff idea that may have more holes than Liverbirdies snidey Calvin Kleins. But it can't be any more half assed than the current proposition.
 
bluewolf said:
I know, and have played with, several guys like your friend. They are the lifeblood of any club, and are always welcome to play with me. I have no intention of making the game harder for anyone. However, I do believe that there are better options out there..

How about, off the top of my head, getting rid of the outdated concept of ladies, juniors, mens and competition tees. Leave the handicap limit where it is and allow each member to choose which tee they want their handicap measured from? Total inclusivity at every club in Britain. Lead the World rather than follow it?

Please note, this was an off the cuff idea that may have more holes than Liverbirdies snidey Calvin Kleins. But it can't be any more half assed than the current proposition.
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:thup:

Spot on
 
bluewolf said:
How about, off the top of my head, getting rid of the outdated concept of ladies, juniors, mens and competition tees. Leave the handicap limit where it is and allow each member to choose which tee they want their handicap measured from? Total inclusivity at every club in Britain. Lead the World rather than follow it?

.
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With a bit of tweaking that is the Slope and handicap indexing system right there, which is virtually everyone else but not UK.
Having played under the NZ version I do feel we are some what behind with our system
 
bluewolf said:
How about, off the top of my head, getting rid of the outdated concept of ladies, juniors, mens and competition tees.
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Once your course has been reassessed (ours has ) the concept of ladies, gents yellow or white tees has been gotten rid of. You can play a qualifier of any measured course.

My worry is that someone who has been on CONGU meetings seems not to be aware of this.
 
Old Skier said:
Once your course has been reassessed (ours has ) the concept of ladies, gents yellow or white tees has been gotten rid of. You can play a qualifier of any measured course.

My worry is that someone who has been on CONGU meetings seems not to be aware of this.
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Ah interesting. Do you now have both men's and women's par and SSS rated from every set of tees?
 
Old Skier said:
Womans handicaps were bought into line with men's a couple of years ago( may have been slightly longer) the SSS for every tee will be reassessed and the same SSS will be for men and women.
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That doesnt sound right ?

How can it be the same SSS for both men and ladies ?

Ours will be reasssed with a SSS for each sex on each tee
 
Liverpoolphil said:
That doesnt sound right ?How can it be the same SSS for both men and ladies ?Ours will be reasssed with a SSS for each sex on each tee
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Don't ask me ask those who are reassessing . We are now told that the SSS refers to the tee and not the sex (once you have been assed) and as ladies handicaps were bought in line with the men's I'm not sure I understand your concerns.Be aware that the reassessment will take up to 10 years.
 
Old Skier said:
Womans handicaps were bought into line with men's a couple of years ago( may have been slightly longer) the SSS for every tee will be reassessed and the same SSS will be for men and women.
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That is absolutely wrong.

Each set of tees to be rated are rated separately for men and ladies. The distances and obstruction factors are quite different although the rating procedure is the same. The resultant SSS or Course Rating (the USGA name) will be different for each gender.

Many clubs are having the reds rated for men and a few are having the yellows rated for ladies. I don't know of any club that is having the whites or blues rated for ladies. Some clubs have or are introducing forward green tees for both sexes.

The ladies' associations and all the men's unions have been rating using the USGA rating system for many years. England men were the exception until last year using, the England Golf Union rating system. We are now working through nearly 2000 courses over the next few years.

Both men and ladies have used the same CONGU handicapping system since 2004.


Incidentally, the USGA are encouraging players to play from tees appropriate to their length. ie "Play it Forward". So the move for men to play from the reds is well advanced there.
 
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Old Skier said:
Don't ask me ask those who are reassessing . We are now told that the SSS refers to the tee and not the sex (once you have been assed) and as ladies handicaps were bought in line with the men's I'm not sure I understand your concerns.Be aware that the reassessment will take up to 10 years.
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Sorry but that's wrong - each tee is assessed and will have seperate SSS for each sex

It then allows men and women to play of the same tees in comps
 
rulefan said:
That is absolutely wrong.

Each set of tees to be rated are rated separately for men and ladies. The distances and obstruction factors are quite different although the rating procedure is the same. The resultant SSS or Course Rating (the USGA name) will be different for each gender.

Many clubs are having the reds rated for men and a few are having the yellows rated for ladies. I don't know of any club that is having the whites or blues rated for ladies. Some clubs have or are introducing forward green tees for both sexes.

The ladies' associations and all the men's unions have been rating using the USGA rating system for many years. England men were the exception until last year using, the England Golf Union rating system. We are now working through nearly 2000 courses over the next few years.

Both men and ladies have used the same CONGU handicapping system since 2004.


Incidentally, the USGA are encouraging players to play from tees appropriate to their length. ie "Play it Forward". So the move for men to play from the reds is well advanced there.
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Yes, that makes much more sense. Apart from clubs not getting yellows and whites rated for women but I guess that's just down to the attitude of those clubs.
 
FairwayDodger said:
Yes, that makes much more sense. Apart from clubs not getting yellows and whites rated for women but I guess that's just down to the attitude of those clubs.
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Believe the end game is to all have tees rated for both sexes
 
rulefan said:
The ladies' associations and all the men's unions have been rating using the USGA rating system for many years. England men were the exception until last year using, the England Golf Union rating system. We are now working through nearly 2000 courses over the next few years.
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I think you'll find that the ladies association have used the rating system used by the USGA but the men's Union did not but on reassessment all sets of tees are assessed using the USGA system.
 
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