CONGU Club Handicaps

[rulefan]

If that's the case then then somethings gone wrong at this end because we only have one SSS for each tee.

It is probable that the ladies tees have not been re-rated. If they were originally rated within the last five years (or maybe 10) and there have been no dramatic changes to the course, they probably wouldn't rate them now. There are too many men's tees to get done. The USGA process is much longer than the old EGU process and the paperwork is frightening.

 

[Old Skier]

Because it hasn't been assessed for both ladies and men - just like ours

I hope it was as it was done in late summer under the county's reassessment scheme. Would hate to think they are having to come back again, will have to have a conversation with county.

 

[Old Skier]

The USGA process is much longer than the old EGU process and the paperwork is frightening.

I know as I was present for ours, Holsworthys and RNDs late last year which is why I thought I understood what was going on.

 

[rulefan]

Yes, that makes much more sense. Apart from clubs not getting yellows and whites rated for women but I guess that's just down to the attitude of those clubs.

The Ladies Associations have said that the whites (in particular) and many yellow courses are too long for ladies.
We have held some ladies national and international events and they specially selected a mixture of yellow and red tees for play and gave that course a temporary rating.

 

[rulefan]

I know as I was present for ours, Holsworthys and RNDs late last year which is why I thought I understood what was going on.

How many raters were in the team? Was it a mixed gender team?

 

[Old Skier]

How many raters were in the team? Was it a mixed gender team?

Mixed gender team with 4 trained and 3 helpers. Having just VERY quickly reread the paperwork I received their is no mention of different SSS ratings for different genders. A chat with county secretary required this week to get this right me thinks,

 

[Deleted member 15344]

http://www.englandgolf.org/library-...e Rating Proposal - General Meeting Nov12.pdf

In supporting information

The first stage is rating both the red and yellow tees for men and women leaving the whites for just men in the first stage

 

[FairwayDodger]

The Ladies Associations have said that the whites (in particular) and many yellow courses are too long for ladies.
We have held some ladies national and international events and they specially selected a mixture of yellow and red tees for play and gave that course a temporary rating.

Have they? That's certainly not true of all courses. I'd be very disappointed if there was an attitude across the board that whites were not going to be rated rather than looking at it on a case by case basis.

 

[Old Skier]

http://www.englandgolf.org/library-...e Rating Proposal - General Meeting Nov12.pdf

In supporting information

The first stage is rating both the red and yellow tees for men and women leaving the whites for just men in the first stage

Cheers for that but it's not clear whether the red and yellows would have separate ratings for male and female.

 

[rulefan]

Have they? That's certainly not true of all courses. I'd be very disappointed if there was an attitude across the board that whites were not going to be rated rather than looking at it on a case by case basis.

I agree with your last comment but I know of no plans for white tees to be rated for ladies as a general policy.

A SSS of 72 for men would probably come out at 75-76 for ladies. I don't see many takers.

Incidentally, although EG make a contribution towards the cost of rating, it is costing the counties significantly more to do the work and every extra set of tees costs more time and money. They'll only be done if it is necessary.

The publication that Phil posted is somewhat out of date and is only the feasibility report not the actual plan.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I agree with your last comment but I know of no plans for white tees to be rated for ladies as a general policy.

A SSS of 72 for men would probably come out at 75-76 for ladies. I don't see many takers.

I just fear that in too many cases the decision will come down to the lowest common denominator rather than considering that some females actually could play the longer course and would like to do so. It also can't cost much to rate all tees for both genders at the same time so I don't really see a good argument against it.

Is this just an England thing or are they doing it up here as well?

 

[rulefan]

I just fear that in too many cases the decision will come down to the lowest common denominator rather than considering that some females actually could play the longer course and would like to do so. It also can't cost much to rate all tees for both genders at the same time so I don't really see a good argument against it.

Is this just an England thing or are they doing it up here as well?

All Scottish courses have already been rated under the USGA system.

Each extra set of tees adds about 1/2 an hour to the basic on course time of upto 5 hours. The paper work can take longer.
Remember the raters are all volunteers. My teams have got nearly 200 courses to rate.

 

[rulefan]

Going back to the early questions. A new player may be added to the system without a CDH ID. They can be included in competitions provided they have been allocated a handicap. When they are issued with a CDH ID their scores will be uploaded to the CDH.

Incidentally, Scotland and Wales require all players without an ID to be reported when the system publishes to the CDH. England do not.

 

[FairwayDodger]

All Scottish courses have already been rated under the USGA system.

Each extra set of tees adds about 1/2 an hour to the basic on course time of upto 5 hours. The paper work can take longer.
Remember the raters are all volunteers. My teams have got nearly 200 courses to rate.

OK I've taken this off track enough but would just add that I think men and women should be treated equally by golf clubs and neither an extra half hour nor the fact that the course raters are volunteers are valid excuses for not doing so.

 

[rulefan]

OK I've taken this off track enough but would just add that I think men and women should be treated equally by golf clubs and neither an extra half hour nor the fact that the course raters are volunteers are valid excuses for not doing so.

It is up to the club and its members. Neither EG nor the counties make the decision.

But if all tees are rated for both genders universally someone will have to pay. That means you. I know some volunteers are already talking about not being able to find the time. The USGA system is far more time consuming than the EGU system.

 

[FairwayDodger]

But if all tees are rated for both genders universally someone will have to pay. That means you.

I get that but someone is paying even if we only do it for men. That means me as well, I bet?

 

[bluewolf]

Whilst I agree that there will be a cost involved, would it not be better to do something "right first time" rather than try to adapt a cheaper system to make a "best fit" scenario?

All players start at the same place and then ability allows them to move back through the tees whilst still allowing every club member to be competitive in every competition played.. I will bow down to everyone with greater experience than me, but is this not a good system to look at?

 

[rulefan]

I don't know if you haver played at Woodhall Spa.

It is quite disheartening to play from set of tees where you can't reach any fairway. Unless they are a pro, I can't see any woman choosing to play from the back tees. It's bad enough for the cat 1 players.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I don't know if you haver played at Woodhall Spa.

It is quite disheartening to play from set of tees where you can't reach any fairway. Unless they are a pro, I can't see any woman choosing to play from the back tees. It's bad enough for the cat 1 players.

As I said, it depends on the course. My home course is 5344 yards off the whites. I think I'd manage, given the chance.

 

[bluewolf]

As I said, it depends on the course. My home course is 5344 yards off the whites. I think I'd manage, given the choice.

Fixed it for you...