Confused with ruling

[evahakool]

After reading Lefties reply to a ruling Question a was left Confused.

He states ( not saying its wrong just confused) that if a player declairs his ball lost and his opponant finds it he must play that ball.

Now i always thought that if you declaire a ball lost you can play a provisanal and carry on playing that one and not bother looking for your origanal ball.

So if your opponant finds your ball and you deem it unplayable and take a penalty and play three of the tee,must you do this rather than playing your provisanal

 

[Smiffy]

So if your opponant finds your ball and you deem it unplayable and take a penalty and play three of the tee,must you do this rather than playing your provisanal

Yep.
The only times that this ruling would not apply is if
1) The original ball was found more than 5 minutes after it had been struck.
2) You had played a 2nd (or 3rd) shot with your provisional ball AHEAD of where your original ball was found. Once you have done this, your provisional ball becomes the ball in play. But you must have actually played a shot with it ahead of your original ball. It doesn't count if your provisional ball is ahead of your original but hasn't been struck (it that makes sense)

 

[Ethan]

It can be a race.

If your oppo find the first ball in bounds within the permitted 5 minutes before you play the provo, you must play that first ball, and you may need to declare it unplayable and take a penalty drop or three to get it out of wherever he found it.

If you get up to your provo and play it from closer to the hole than the first one before the first one is found, the provo is in play and the first ball is lost.

 

[Robobum]

If you ask your playing partners/ opponents not to bother looking then it would be a right shabby trick for them to wade in and find your ball for you.

 

[Smiffy]

If you ask your playing partners/ opponents not to bother looking then it would be a right shabby trick for them to wade in and find your ball for you.

I know


I've done it

 

[Tommo21]

Now i always thought that if you declaire a ball lost you can play a provisanal and carry on playing that one and not bother looking for your origanal ball.

So if your opponant finds your ball and you deem it unplayable and take a penalty and play three of the tee,must you do this rather than playing your provisanal

[/QUOTE]

You cant have it both ways....if you play a prov you go look for the original otherwise it is not a prov. The prov is there if you cant find the original. You cant after hittting a good prov claim the first one lost just because you hit a good prov.

If you go find the original and it's unplayable you have to take up the options for that situation, including going back to play three off the tee. The prov is abandoned.

 

[bobmac]

Yep.
The only times that this ruling would not apply is if
1) The original ball was found more than 5 minutes after it had been struck.
2) You had played a 2nd (or 3rd) shot with your provisional ball AHEAD of where your original ball was found. Once you have done this, your provisional ball becomes the ball in play.

Tut tut tut.
Smiffy Smiffy Smiffy

 

[viscount17]

if you think it lost and don't want to find it, play a new ball (under penalty) without declaring it a provisional and the new ball is the ball in play.

I know you can do this off the tee (cos the R&A bloke said so) just not sure if it also applies half way down the track.

 

[DCB]

Since you can't actually "declare a ball lost" it's down to whether you're playing strokeplay or matchplay.

In strokeplay, your fellow competitiors may well realise you don't want the original ball to be found.

In matchplay, your opponent can and will have a dam good look for it.

 

[Tommo21]

if you think it lost and don't want to find it, play a new ball (under penalty) without declaring it a provisional and the new ball is the ball in play.

I know you can do this off the tee (cos the R&A bloke said so) just not sure if it also applies half way down the track.

Lets get this clear…..you cannot announce, after hitting a ball that may be lost say in the rough, hit a provisional to then walk off the tee and claim the first one lost.

If you play a prov the first ball is the ball in play until you cant find it………in other words you look for it.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Since you can't actually "declare a ball lost"

Exactly. One of the biggest myths of the rules.

If you hit it into the clag you can then immediately take a stroke and distance penalty and play 3 off the tee in which case the original is then lost not by declaration but by your actions OR you can say it is a provisional and the original remains the ball in play until 5 mins are up or you play from further on etc.

If you hit a good shot with your provisional you can't just suddenly decide to say the first one is now lost. OK you may not look for it but if it is found by someone (opponent or perhaps a fellow player looking for their ball in same area) then you must identify it and discard the provisional.

 

[bobmac]

Jimmy hits his drive into the jungle. Tam hits his down the middle.
Jimmy goes back to the teeing ground and says "I won't find that in there, I'll hit another one" and smacks it down the middle.
The second ball is then in play and the first ball, if found, must be picked up.

 

[DCB]

back to

There's the two important words in this one !

edit

Mind you, maybe Bob wasn't coming from that angle

 

[Smiffy]

back to

There's the two important words in this one !

edit

Mind you, maybe Bob wasn't coming from that angle

He most probably was.
He likes to catch you out.

 

[bobmac]

back to

There's the two important words in this one !

edit

Mind you, maybe Bob wasn't coming from that angle

I meant that Jimmy waited until Tam had hit his then hit another one straight after Tam.

 

[Tommo21]

Since you can't actually "declare a ball lost"

Exactly. One of the biggest myths of the rules.

If you hit it into the clag you can then immediately take a stroke and distance penalty and play 3 off the tee in which case the original is then lost not by declaration but by your actions OR you can say it is a provisional and the original remains the ball in play until 5 mins are up or you play from further on etc.

If you hit a good shot with your provisional you can't just suddenly decide to say the first one is now lost. OK you may not look for it but if it is found by someone (opponent or perhaps a fellow player looking for their ball in same area) then you must identify it and discard the provisional.

Wrong in one little thing.........you say, OK you may not go look for it...........No, if it's a prov you need to go look for it or it is not a prov. In other words if you hit a duff prov, I'll bet you go look for the original, but going by what you say, if you hit a super prov then you can walk up without looking for the original. You cannot have it both ways.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Since you can't actually "declare a ball lost"

Exactly. One of the biggest myths of the rules.

If you hit it into the clag you can then immediately take a stroke and distance penalty and play 3 off the tee in which case the original is then lost not by declaration but by your actions OR you can say it is a provisional and the original remains the ball in play until 5 mins are up or you play from further on etc.

If you hit a good shot with your provisional you can't just suddenly decide to say the first one is now lost. OK you may not look for it but if it is found by someone (opponent or perhaps a fellow player looking for their ball in same area) then you must identify it and discard the provisional.

Wrong in one little thing.........you say, OK you may not go look for it...........No, if it's a prov you need to go look for it or it is not a prov. In other words if you hit a duff prov, I'll bet you go look for the original, but going by what you say, if you hit a super prov then you can walk up without looking for the original. You cannot have it both ways.

Sorry, it doesn't say anywhere in the rules that you have to look for a ball. How would you define it? A casual glance in the direction the ball went in? A quick waft around in the hay with a club? A thorough search on hands and knees for a full 5 mins? No, as I said you don't have to look for it. A provisional ball is defined as a ball played under rule 27-2 and it makes no mention of looking for a ball in order for it to be a provisional.

 

[Tommo21]

Rule 27-2a
1) Procedure. If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow competitor in stoke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball,
If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.

What was that.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Rule 27-2a
1) Procedure. If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow competitor in stoke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball,
If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.

What was that.

Er, not following you. In simple terms:
Hit ball and it may be lost
Must announce provisional
Must do this before going forward to search
Otherwise it's not a provisional and is in play

So you do all that (so it IS a provisional) and then decide not to look. Of course I'm not saying nobody else is alowed to look just because you don't. Opponents in a match will almost certainly do so.

If I'm wrong on this I want to revise my post on Bobs thread about the most mis-interpreted rule in golf as this happens all the time.

 

[Tommo21]

Yes I'm with you, but If I was playing with you or anyone else for that matter, and you/they declare and play a prov I would go look for your first ball, even more if I knew you had no intention of doing so.