Combining matchplay and strokeplay

[Slab]

Just to stop the WHS thread going too far off topic:

For those that don’t know its possible to combine both formats of play in a single comp. It needs to be played to strokeplay rules of golf
It opens up more day/date options for the players (and as an added benefit it frees up a tee time on the course)

I’ve done it several times, I liked it fine. Having to hole out wasn't a big deal & I never have/will ask for a shot to be replayed (if played out of turn)

Other than that I can't see a downside ......

 

[D-S]

So if your opponent accidentally plays off the wrong tees, should/would you go with the strokeplay penalty of 2 shots in terms of the matchplay score for that hole or would you discount the penalty in the match?

 

[Orikoru]

That just doesn't work for me. Sure it's been said on the other thread, but you just don't play match and stroke the same way. Most notably how aggressive/conservative you are dependant on your opponent. It's a different game.

 

[Curls]

There are different rules for each format beyond simply holing out or retaking shots. What about a penalty that would result in the loss of a hole Vs a 2 stroke penalty like playing the wrong ball? If the agreement is whatever net score is lower wins the hole then I suppose playing by strokeplay rules can be a sort of matchplay. I don’t think it can be sanctioned for club matchplay comps though?

 

[Bdill93]

Its happened at my club a fair few times this season so far. Its not for me personally for the reasons that people have mentioned but if its the only option for some then so be it if our committee allows (which it does).

 

[ntommo]

We allow it at our club, as long as people know its strokeplay rules its up to them. Its their match

 

[IanM]

I gave two examples of why I play differently in matchplay in the other thread... that's without the Rules implications. Hence I'd never attach a "match" to a medal round.

But, if someone says that's not correct I'm interested to hear why.

Convenience might be a reason, but I meant "golf related " not diary management

 

[Imurg]

When I used to enter the Matchplay knockouts, which I don't anymore as it too much of a PITA trying to arrange, we'd play the Matchplay at a convenient time. If that happened to be just before or just after the monthly medal then we wouldn't get to play in that comp....
It's not like most clubs have a shortage of comps...and if you're having to arrange your match while trying to play the comp then you haven't got the time to enter the Matchplay...

 

[jim8flog]

So if your opponent accidentally plays off the wrong tees, should/would you go with the strokeplay penalty of 2 shots in terms of the matchplay score for that hole or would you discount the penalty in the match?

There is no 'penalty' for paying off the wrong tee in match play only in stroke play but I am getting what you mean in terms of a stroke play score.

It then comes down to what the OP means by playing stroke play because the penalties are different in handicap stroke play and stableford and comes down to whether or not the player corrects the mistake (or is allowed to correct the mistake by the other player).

 

[Bdill93]

When I used to enter the Matchplay knockouts, which I don't anymore as it too much of a PITA trying to arrange, we'd play the Matchplay at a convenient time. If that happened to be just before or just after the monthly medal then we wouldn't get to play in that comp....
It's not like most clubs have a shortage of comps...and if you're having to arrange your match while trying to play the comp then you haven't got the time to enter the Matchplay...

I agree! The guys at my club that seem to be doing this are actually mostly seniors - and its because they have KO Singles and Pairs plus the seniors KO's and Pairs (so 4 KO's in total) and they also want to play in both comps in the week My old man being one!

Certainly a case of having their cake and wanting to eat it

I cant see many of these being played in June/ July when the fields have reduced dramatically but early season its certainly occurring!

 

[D-S]

There is no 'penalty' for paying off the wrong tee in match play only in stroke play but I am getting what you mean in terms of a stroke play score.

It then comes down to what the OP means by playing stroke play because the penalties are different in handicap stroke play and stableford and comes down to whether or not the player corrects the mistake (or is allowed to correct the mistake by the other player).

Yes, I would be uncertain as to whether to include a 2 stroke penalty (which doesn't exist in matchplay) in the match play score for that hole - not sure what the etiquette for this is.

 

[backwoodsman]

Yes, I would be uncertain as to whether to include a 2 stroke penalty (which doesn't exist in matchplay) in the match play score for that hole - not sure what the etiquette for this is.

You're playing under strokeplay rules - so if you do something that generates the general penalty (2 stroke in strokeplay, loss of hole in matchplay) then you apply the strokeplay penalty to the matchplay score instead of losing the hole

For example, playing a wrong ball, normally in matchplay you lose the hole there & then (and neither player needs to play the hole further). But if you're combining formats, then you don't automatically lose the hole - you get a two shot penalty, both players continue to play out the hole, and lowest nett score wins the hole.

 

[Orikoru]

You're playing under strokeplay rules - so if you do something that generates the general penalty (2 stroke in strokeplay, loss of hole in matchplay) then you apply the strokeplay penalty to the matchplay score instead of losing the hole

For example, playing a wrong ball, normally in matchplay you lose the hole there & then (and neither player needs to play the hole further). But if you're combining formats, then you don't automatically lose the hole - you get a two shot penalty, both players continue to play out the hole, and lowest nett score wins the hole.

I would have thought that it's still a loss of hole in the matchplay score, however you also finish the hole for your strokeplay score.

 

[D-S]

You're playing under strokeplay rules - so if you do something that generates the general penalty (2 stroke in strokeplay, loss of hole in matchplay) then you apply the strokeplay penalty to the matchplay score instead of losing the hole

For example, playing a wrong ball, normally in matchplay you lose the hole there & then (and neither player needs to play the hole further). But if you're combining formats, then you don't automatically lose the hole - you get a two shot penalty, both players continue to play out the hole, and lowest nett score wins the hole.

In reality then you are not playing 'true' matchplay but some sort of hybrid format. Also, and maybe more importantly, playing to different 'rules' than everyone else in the matchplay tournament.

 

[doublebogey7]

So if your opponent accidentally plays off the wrong tees, should/would you go with the strokeplay penalty of 2 shots in terms of the matchplay score for that hole or would you discount the penalty in the match?

Committee Procedures 6C (11) advices simply that in matchplay the player does not have the option to recall the shot, but also says the penalty applied would be that which applies in each individual format, so in strokeplay there remains a two stroke penalty but no penalty in matchplay.

You're playing under strokeplay rules - so if you do something that generates the general penalty (2 stroke in strokeplay, loss of hole in matchplay) then you apply the strokeplay penalty to the matchplay score instead of losing the hole

For example, playing a wrong ball, normally in matchplay you lose the hole there & then (and neither player needs to play the hole further). But if you're combining formats, then you don't automatically lose the hole - you get a two shot penalty, both players continue to play out the hole, and lowest nett score wins the hole.

That is not what Committee Procedures 6C (11), tells us. "The Committee should apply the Rules of Golf as they would apply to each of match play and stroke play, where possible". So for the matchplay it is loss of hole, but you continue play to determine the score for strokeplay.

 

[D-S]

Committee Procedures 6C (11) advices simply that in matchplay the player does not have the option to recall the shot, but also says the penalty applied would be that which applies in each individual format, so in strokeplay there remains a two stroke penalty but no penalty in matchplay.

That is not what Committee Procedures 6C (11), tells us. "The Committee should apply the Rules of Golf as they would apply to each of match play and stroke play, where possible". So for the matchplay it is loss of hole, but you continue play to determine the score for strokeplay.

That is good to know but I wonder how many playing this ‘hybrid’ are aware?

 

[jim8flog]

Yes, I would be uncertain as to whether to include a 2 stroke penalty (which doesn't exist in matchplay) in the match play score for that hole - not sure what the etiquette for this is.

Although there is a 2 stroke penalty in strokeplay the important bit is that the player must correct the error before teeing off on the next hole or else it is a DQ (handicap stroke play) or if playing stableford it is zero points for that hole.

This where your original comment comes very much in to play. The player can only correct the error with the opponents permission if they are playing match play. If say the player has hit the tee shot in to the boonies are they going to let them play again from the correct teeing area.

In my view because of matters like this match and stroke played in the same round only work if it is Stableford so a player can put zero points on a hole (such as when a general play card is being returned).

 

[BubbaP]

Whilst my initial instinct would be I wouldn't fancy playing a stableford () against the field and a match against an individual, in reality I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't really affect the result generally. Whilst I and others like the strategy side of matchplay, generally probably the player who makes the fewest mistakes and putts better will come out on top.

 

[backwoodsman]

Committee Procedures 6C (11) advices simply that in matchplay the player does not have the option to recall the shot, but also says the penalty applied would be that which applies in each individual format, so in strokeplay there remains a two stroke penalty but no penalty in matchplay.

That is not what Committee Procedures 6C (11), tells us. "The Committee should apply the Rules of Golf as they would apply to each of match play and stroke play, where possible". So for the matchplay it is loss of hole, but you continue play to determine the score for strokeplay.

OK. I stand corrected. Good job it never arose at the weekend when me & oppo did play 'combined.

 

[rosecott]

Our committee allows combining strokeplay and matchplay and all players seeking to do that are aware that strokeplay rules prevail.

Today, I played a singles knockout matchplay with the regular Tuesday Stableford comp. There was no issue of any kind - I deservedly lost 2&1 and scored 30 points to my opponents 35.