Club loyalty

[gopher99]

However during look down asked for nothing and offered free online classes

You are correct on that, i guess it’s hard times for everyone at the moment and everyone wants something different.

 

[KenL]

If they are poorly run (ones with massive committees I suspect) or didn’t charge enough to start with then I’m not surprised but many now have positive cash balances from pre lockdown times.

Popular visitors clubs can take hundreds of thousands in visitor fees or would do in normal years.

 

[Bdill93]

I’ve been an active member of my club(Hever Castle) for 11 years, they have offered nothing for all the lost time, and during lockdown very little has been done to the course. They, like many other clubs have had a lot of new members. Due to circumstances, I asked if I could go on the flexi membership, to be told NO. Such a disappointing reply.

Sorry to hear that your club dont appreciate your more than the next guy. After 11 years you'd think they would care enough to do all they could to maintain your membership in one form or another - Id be gutted if the same happened to me. I assume they are stopping the flexi membership altogether due to the influx of new full members then?

 

[jim8flog]

If they are poorly run (ones with massive committees I suspect) or didn’t charge enough to start with then I’m not surprised but many now have positive cash balances from pre lockdown times.

There is no way I could ever call our club poorly run. We have a very big income shortfall. We have a committee but they are all unpaid volunteers as are most committees.

Question to you - do you read the club accounts every year in depth and do you appreciate where the income comes from? Membership fees are just one part of the source.


Is your bit I have now put in bold something you know of or something you have just assumed.

 

[rulefan]

(ones with massive committees I suspect)

Often members of large committees will be volunteering for many of the mundane tasks that would/could/should otherwise be done by paid staff. eg handicap/comp secs, junior organisers ...

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I’ve been an active member of my club(Hever Castle) for 11 years, they have offered nothing for all the lost time, and during lockdown very little has been done to the course. They, like many other clubs have had a lot of new members. Due to circumstances, I asked if I could go on the flexi membership, to be told NO. Such a disappointing reply.

I suspect they are in need of cash (understandably) given they are taking visitors straight away. Not many clubs in the area are at the moment.

 

[SammmeBee]

There is no way I could ever call our club poorly run. We have a very big income shortfall. We have a committee but they are all unpaid volunteers as are most committees.

Question to you - do you read the club accounts every year in depth and do you appreciate where the income comes from? Membership fees are just one part of the source.


Is your bit I have now put in bold something you know of or something you have just assumed.

Obviously your membership income isn’t high enough then!

What income lines did you lose out on then and, green fees apart, which of those lines then had no expenditure savings directly linked to them?

 

[sunshine]

Obviously your membership income isn’t high enough then!

What income lines did you lose out on then and, green fees apart, which of those lines then had no expenditure savings directly linked to them?

Some clubs have very high income from visitors and societies which subsidises membership. The extreme is top Scottish courses which rely on rich American tourists. Some resort courses don't even have membership and rely on visitors e.g. The Grove has had zero income but must still have paid staff to maintain the course.

Private clubs which are only open to members and guests, e.g. Queenwood, have probably remained largely unaffected by COVID, as income is static but they can furlough staff.

 

[slowhand]

Don't forget, it's not just green fees from visitors that clubs have lost out on, but restaurant & bar takings from both visitors & members, which for a lot of clubs is a major source of income.

 

[SammmeBee]

Don't forget, it's not just green fees from visitors that clubs have lost out on, but restaurant & bar takings from both visitors & members, which for a lot of clubs is a major source of income.

I would say the majority of golf clubs’ catering operations were the most profitable they’ve ever been in the last 6/12 months!!

 

[Sats]

That seems wrong NOT to let you the paying customer choose the plan what suits you.

 

[jim8flog]

Obviously your membership income isn’t high enough then!

What income lines did you lose out on then and, green fees apart, which of those lines then had no expenditure savings directly linked to them?

In a a normal year our fees are set at the right level - we have to be competitive with other clubs in the area not just for members fees but for visitors and societies.

During lock down we still have to pay the club manager at least one pro at all times to receive deliveries. We still have to pay all the finance charges on equipment. I believe half the greenstaff were still working. We still have to pay insurance and any other long term contract fees. TV licence. No idea wnat happens about rates but I bet we still had to pay some. Fuel costs for course vehicles. Telephone rental charges Satellite (for Broadband) charges, ISV charges. Pension contributions for the staff those are the ones I can think off but I bet there are a few others.

Income we lost would be from all food and bar takings, we run the pro shop so we lost all the income from general sales if players are not playing then they are not buying balls etc, income from competitions not just Opens but regular medals and stableford, general income . Driving Range income not just members as we are open to anybody who wants to use it. Drinks income from the proshop from people using the range.

 

[jim8flog]

I would say the majority of golf clubs’ catering operations were the most profitable they’ve ever been in the last 6/12 months!!

I really still have to question where you get your ideas from. We are open to to all not just members and we noticed a major drop off of some of our normal regular trade for catering.

People not going to work and working from home tend to eat at home and not got o places like ours. We do not see a few regular work crowds. Added to that our Christmas trade compared to previous years was virtually no existent. No works Christmas parties for example for which we are normally full booked . No weddings. The function room which is often booked 2-3 times a week by companies was not used at all.

 

[backwoodsman]

Our catering has normally run at a loss (ie costs exceed income) in recent years. It's mainly due to the staff costs - & it's run mainly as a "service to members". So our catering proved "profitable" over this past year. I know we also got a massive amount of rates relief.

I dont know all the ins & outs, but we are many, many, thousands better off this year than we were 12 months previously. (And I do mean many). And we we kept on the entire greens team throughout. I know we've been incredibly lucky, but Sammebee is not incorrect in his assumption for some clubs.

 

[KenL]

Our catering has normally run at a loss (ie costs exceed income) in recent years. It's mainly due to the staff costs - & it's run mainly as a "service to members". So our catering proved "profitable" over this past year. I know we also got a massive amount of rates relief.

I dont know all the ins & outs, but we are many, many, thousands better off this year than we were 12 months previously. (And I do mean many). And we we kept on the entire greens team throughout. I know we've been incredibly lucky, but Sammebee is not incorrect in his assumption for some clubs.

I assume that this is a club that gets zero or next to zero visitor income?

 

[backwoodsman]

I assume that this is a club that gets zero or next to zero visitor income?

We get a good dollop of visitor/society income - but its not the mainstay of club finances.

 

[IanM]

Our kitchen and bar reopens on Monday. (Members club)

The folks who had no dip in income over past 12 months (inc me) have a duty to eat and drink the Steward back to solvency!

 

[williamalex1]

Our club is asking full members for a one off £35 levy to bring the carpark up to forum standards, plus some new furniture/seating to improve the clubhouse.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

I was a member at hever for 4 years.... I didn't think they offered much to the members even at that point, let alone in recent times.

I'm now at Sedlescombe and as far as I'm aware they're rolling memberships on for the months lost during the latest lockdown. Also the work they completed over recent months is astonishing, some parts of the course are unrecognisable.

 

[sunshine]

Our club is asking full members for a one off £35 levy to bring the carpark up to forum standards, plus some new furniture/seating to improve the clubhouse.

very good.

Maybe get some reviewers round and see if the course can climb the rankings