Clean air zones

[cliveb]

Why do I "need" to answer? I'm not bringing in ulez or standing for election? I don't "need to do anything" to be honest ...

I also already have answered the question.

Improvements in cars by upgrading and new tech help improves air quality

Some changed naturally, some changed for ulez .

Also you need to look at traffic density

In a city more cars more pollution

In the country side less cars less pollution

Simple as that.

You need to answer because you are one of the chief protagonists in this thread, and your position is unambiguously one that supports ULEZ expansion on the grounds that it will improve air quality. I have presented some evidence that seems to suggest that air quality is just as good outside the ULEZ area, so I wanted to know how you reconcile this.

Thinking about it some more, I do have a theory that might explain your position.
Perhaps your argument is that ULEZ has encouraged people to change to less polluting cars (when without ULEZ they wouldn't have done so).
And this change has had a knock on effect so that those cleaner cars are also circulating in outer London, thus improving air quality there as well.
Does that about sum up your position? It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

 

[PJ87]

You need to answer because you are one of the chief protagonists in this thread, and your position is unambiguously one that supports ULEZ expansion on the grounds that it will improve air quality. I have presented some evidence that seems to suggest that air quality is just as good outside the ULEZ area, so I wanted to know how you reconcile this.

Thinking about it some more, I do have a theory that might explain your position.
Perhaps your argument is that ULEZ has encouraged people to change to less polluting cars (when without ULEZ they wouldn't have done so).
And this change has had a knock on effect so that those cleaner cars are also circulating in outer London, thus improving air quality there as well.
Does that about sum up your position? It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Post 248 said that.

"Move to EV is one part, people naturally upgrading cars from non ulez cars to ulez cars

Every little helps

As posted previously, dpd, Tesco amongst just some companies using electric vans to do their drops

Surely you can't deny inside and outside of ulez that will have an affect"

So yes that's exactly what I'm saying. People have naturally upgraded or upgraded because of ulez. It has a knock on affect

Just think how many emissions are off the road thanks to companies like amazon, dpd and Tesco using electric vans for their runs .

 

[Oddsocks]

They are working to electrify all trains but cost in some areas

29% of network rail entire fleet is diesel that's not bad considering

Not bad considering the the ulez monies paying to electrify the rail?

 

[PJ87]

Not bad considering the the ulez monies paying to electrify the rail?

No network rail is England wide, I'm not sure the % of rails that go into tfl zones are electric, off top of my head I can only think of one thats not (Chilton railways)

All tfl services underground , overground (wombling free) and the Elizabeth line are electric anyways..(gospel oak to barking on the overground used to be diesel but has been upgraded to electric when tfl took it over)

Speaking of Chilton found this

UK first as trains running on vegetable oil use Marylebone station

‘Plant-based’ locomotives pioneered by Chiltern Railways in bid to cut emissions

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Tashyboy]

No network rail is England wide, I'm not sure the % of rails that go into tfl zones are electric, off top of my head I can only think of one thats not (Chilton railways)

All tfl services underground , overground (wombling free) and the Elizabeth line are electric anyways..(gospel oak to barking on the overground used to be diesel but has been upgraded to electric when tfl took it over)

Speaking of Chilton found this

UK first as trains running on vegetable oil use Marylebone station

‘Plant-based’ locomotives pioneered by Chiltern Railways in bid to cut emissions

www.standard.co.uk

And now we have got onto something i mentioned pages back, scrapping railway lines and trams, only to start replacing tram lines And railway lines. Like I say with ULEZ, someone is good at fixing problems they created.

 

[SocketRocket]

I find it 'interesting' that the bus services in Bristol have been cut drastically since the LEZ was introduced. Also, if the council put a Park and Ride at the top of the M32 then that would reduce loads of traffic into the City centre, much more than any charging zone

They have one at Avonmouth just off the M5 and have built a new railway station there so you can get to various parts of Bristol on the train from the park and ride.

 

[Tashyboy]

They have one at Avonmouth just off the M5 and have built a new railway station there so you can get to various parts of Bristol on the train from the park and ride.

Just to back up what I keep saying about railways etc

Quote re Bristol area.

This includes the opening of seven brand-new railway stations, re-opening train lines and enhancing cross-Bristol services.

Re opening train lines. Lines that should never of shut.

 

[Neilds]

They have one at Avonmouth just off the M5 and have built a new railway station there so you can get to various parts of Bristol on the train from the park and ride.

Whilst that is true, to get to the P&R from my side of Bristol (West) I would need to almost double my journey length and then the train station is not really that close to the shops so it makes no sense to use it.

 

[clubchamp98]

What about the air quality where they build these huge car parks.?
all it’s doing is shifting the emissions from City centres to the areas where the P&R is.

 

[Tashyboy]

What about the air quality where they build these huge car parks.?
all it’s doing is shifting the emissions from City centres to the areas where the P&R is.

Don’t matter, we can just ULEZ It

 

[PJ87]

What about the air quality where they build these huge car parks.?
all it’s doing is shifting the emissions from City centres to the areas where the P&R is.

If you say have 100 cars in the city (just keeping numbers simple) and that's the issue

You build 4 car parks which are in different directions around the city

Say you get 20 cars left in the city reducing emissions

Then the remaining 80 cars split into 4 car parks 20 each spreading emissions thus improving air quality

 

[clubchamp98]

If you say have 100 cars in the city (just keeping numbers simple) and that's the issue

You build 4 car parks which are in different directions around the city

Say you get 20 cars left in the city reducing emissions

Then the remaining 80 cars split into 4 car parks 20 each spreading emissions thus improving air quality

Maybe in an ideal world.
but you would get most polluting cars in the poorer boroughs.

This is very London based
so am discussing it from a very I’ll informed position really.

 

[stefanovic]

If you want a clean air zone then here are some guidelines.
Don't live on a main road.
Live somewhere where there are plenty of trees and hedges.
Can't guaratee that the council are not going to cut them down.
Sheffield had a scheme to remove over 17,000. They felled 5,600.

Poor people, including the elderly are pushed into places of high pollution and low shade.
But high tree density nearly always exists in wealthy areas.
It means more shade and oxygenated air.
The higher up you are properties are very likely to be more expensive.
Air is cleaner.
Hampstead is a good example.

Mapping Tree Inequality: Why Many People Don’t Benefit from Tree Cover

Trees provide valuable cooling services in cities, but they are not equally distributed. And the problem is worse than originally thought.

blog.nature.org

 

[Tashyboy]

£14 to drive into Portsmouth for a McDonald’s that we couldn’t get to. So had to come out of City for a Maccies
Edit to say just looked on Gov website to pay and it only says my car does not comply to Bristol and Birmingham. So there’s different levels of clean air.
No clearer re what’s what.

 

[stefanovic]

Sounds like you are a victim of the the War On Motorists.

20mph isn’t plenty: the war on motorists has gone too far

‘Absolutely insane’ is the verdict of Penny Mordaunt MP on the Welsh government’s introduction of a 20mph speed limit on residential roads.

www.spectator.co.uk

No need for a 20mph zone in Solihull. Traffic rarely exceeds half that.

 

[Dando]

 

[Tashyboy]

Just a quick update. Drive to the ferry terminal and called into a McDonald’s which was in the centre. Couldn’t get to it but was in the clean air zone = payment. However I drove out of the centre and found another. Went onto the Gov website to pay and my car is ok to drive in nearly all centres apart from London, Bristol and Birmingham. They are Ultra low zones. So I don’t have to pay for Portsmouth.
So there’s different levels of clean air for City’s.
My cars compliant for some city’s but not others.
Look on the Gov sites and see the maps where the zones are. It is on a par with cheating at golf. They are rammel.
So I got on the ferry. Captain cracked up the engine, put it in first gear and the sun disappeared behind the black smoke.
Which meant the captain now owes HM government £14. But no coz it’s not in the clean air zone.
I agree with the principal of clean air zones but it’s run by village idiots. And there breeding.

 

[PJ87]

Just a quick update. Drive to the ferry terminal and called into a McDonald’s which was in the centre. Couldn’t get to it but was in the clean air zone = payment. However I drove out of the centre and found another. Went onto the Gov website to pay and my car is ok to drive in nearly all centres apart from London, Bristol and Birmingham. They are Ultra low zones. So I don’t have to pay for Portsmouth.
So there’s different levels of clean air for City’s.
My cars compliant for some city’s but not others.
Look on the Gov sites and see the maps where the zones are. It is on a par with cheating at golf. They are rammel.
So I got on the ferry. Captain cracked up the engine, put it in first gear and the sun disappeared behind the black smoke.
Which meant the captain now owes HM government £14. But no coz it’s not in the clean air zone.
I agree with the principal of clean air zones but it’s run by village idiots. And there breeding.

Ulez and lez are different. Aren't lez just for hgv and buses? Low emission zones been around ages

Ulez is tightening of it.

Low Emission Zone
Runs 24/7.
Number-plate recognition tracks entry.
It began in 2008 for large, commercially operated diesel vehicles like buses, lorries and coaches.
£100 for vans or specialist diesel vehicles (over 1.205 tonnes unladen weight up to 3.5 tonnes gross vehicle weight) or minibuses (up to 5 tonnes) which do not meet Euro 3 standards. 
£100 for HGVs, lorries, vans and specialist heavy vehicles over 3.5 tonnes as well as buses/minibuses and coaches over 5 tonnes which do not meet Euro 4 (NOx and PM) standards, but meet Euro 4 (PM).
£300 for HGVs, lorries, vans and specialist heavy vehicles over 3.5 tonnes as well as buses/minibuses and coaches over 5 tonnes which do not meet Euro 4 (PM) standards.

 

[clubchamp98]

Won’t a 20mph limit actually make pollution worse.
most cars won’t get out of third gear at that speed .
so lower gears higher revs and more fumes And fuel consumption.
I can see the logic but think it’s flawed slightly.

plus constantly looking at your speedo means your not looking at the road.

 

[Tashyboy]

Won’t a 20mph limit actually make pollution worse.
most cars won’t get out of third gear at that speed .
so lower gears higher revs and more fumes And fuel consumption.
I can see the logic but think it’s flawed slightly.

plus constantly looking at your speedo means your not looking at the road.

On a positive electric milk floats are now in demand.